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Author Topic: Phoenix Point : In the works X-COMlike from Gollop  (Read 56654 times)

Reelya

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Re: Phoenix Point : In the works X-COMlike from Gollop
« Reply #375 on: November 12, 2019, 05:54:07 pm »

Oh shoot, he did Magic and Mayhem? Hell yeah, that game was ace for what it was. The sequel ended up falling a bit flat though, so I dunno how much oomph the IP has in it.

Would be pretty cool to see some kind of remake/reimagining though.
It seems you can blame Titus for the sequel.

I don't think they ended up with that. Magic and Mayhem was published by Bethesda, not Interplay, so wasn't touched by Titus. The sequel was also published by Bethesda so they probably have the IP rights, not Gollop. When Gollop was getting re-established he re-did his 1980s titles: those are the ones that the big publishers don't have their meathooks in.

EDIT: I spoke too soon, seems the situation was a little more complex than that. Bethesda did the North American releases, but Virgin Interactive did the European release of Magic and Mayhem 1, and Virgin Interactive was owned at this point by Interplay & Titus. However, the relevant factoid may be that the studio making Magic and Mayhem 2 actually went broke during development, right at the time Gollop's Mythos Studios went broke, and the employees had to take the unfinished game to a new studio to get it done, and then Bethesda released it. It's possible Titus was responsible for sending them broke.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 06:07:31 pm by Reelya »
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deoloth

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Re: Phoenix Point : In the works X-COMlike from Gollop
« Reply #376 on: November 12, 2019, 08:35:42 pm »

My understanding is that Titus decided to renege on all of interplay's commitments, force games out when they could, then squeeze whatever money they could from anything they obtained from their acquisitions. Many game studios were forced to jump ship while those who were more 'directly' owned finished what they could before being liquidated and their employees went on to found new studios. Bioware, Obsidian, and Altar are the few that pop up to mind as examples.
Even Altar's UFO: Aftermath was actually based on a remake of the original Xcom called Dreamland Chronicles, that interplay had signed Jullian Gollop for, but once Titus got control they pulled all funding and canceled all contracts. Reworking what they still had control of was how that franchise and it's three games came to be. Bethesda also managed to grab a fair bit of the talent away, leading to it's sudden growth, and eventually also bought the Fallout IP off the flailing remains of what was once Interplay.

Which is a shame, so many good games and IP's were left forgotten, and so many others were wasted on half-assed sequels or side games designed to milk the IP's dry.

Would have loved to See Fallout 3 (The Project Van Buren one), A Freespace 3, or a sequal to the wonderful Giant's: Citizen Kabuto, and so many more.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 08:38:05 pm by deoloth »
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Sanctume

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Re: Phoenix Point : In the works X-COMlike from Gollop
« Reply #377 on: December 03, 2019, 04:48:00 pm »

Anyone got an updated review? It is worth getting that it is released today or tomorrow?

Mephansteras

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Re: Phoenix Point : In the works X-COMlike from Gollop
« Reply #378 on: December 03, 2019, 06:58:02 pm »

I'm installing it now but probably won't get a chance to really dig into it until tomorrow.
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Sirian

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Re: Phoenix Point : In the works X-COMlike from Gollop
« Reply #379 on: December 03, 2019, 08:18:41 pm »

I played for an hour or so, so far it looks like a very formulaic X-Com-like, except for the faction system (3 factions, each with their own tech, that you can befriend). I don't really like the "protect the crates" missions to get resources - they feel very artificial. Also I don't recommend activating the annoying tutorial unless you're completely new to the genre.

I do like the free aim shooting option, and also the fact that you get a jetpack from the start on your heavy unit. You can also build a vehicle from the beginning so that's cool. So far I'm happy with my starting soldiers and gear, they aim properly, deal ok damage and don't die instantly. Oh and I recommend investing your soldier exp in speed first : mobility is king.

I also noted that with the faction system, it seems like you'll have to fight other human soldiers in addition to the mutant eldritch stuff.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 08:20:21 pm by Sirian »
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AzyWng

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Re: Phoenix Point : In the works X-COMlike from Gollop
« Reply #380 on: December 03, 2019, 09:56:07 pm »

If it matters to you at all, I'm watching Beaglerush's stream right now.

He found it very, very difficult to perform free aim in cover because soldiers don't step out of cover when they prepare for free aim.

The act of shooting felt weak.

The bombs explode with no fanfare and are not as powerful as the tutorial suggests (where they kill enemies that had not previously been damaged).

Controls cannot be rebinded.

There is no way to quickly see how much health an enemy has (there is a bar, but the enemy must be selected and their info must be viewed to see the number of hit points they have).

There is also no way to see your chance to hit when in free aim. You have two circles inside one another like in Jagged Alliance 2, but no percentage.

The game's tutorial does not tell the player to bring along extra ammunition.

So, in short? Beaglerush despises this game.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Phoenix Point : In the works X-COMlike from Gollop
« Reply #381 on: December 03, 2019, 10:25:30 pm »

Haven't played the game yet myself, but I do want to point out for anyone who wasn't aware:

The game is on Game Pass for PC. In theory. Apparently it's currently waiting on certification before being actually available via game pass. But that should happen in the very near future.
I felt like I was going insane before I found this out.
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Cruxador

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Re: Phoenix Point : In the works X-COMlike from Gollop
« Reply #382 on: December 03, 2019, 11:24:10 pm »

So, sounds like the short of it is:

* Cool gimmicks
* Uninspired mission design
* Terrible UX oversights

To me that adds up to "only fun for a bit, maybe get it on sale some time down the road".
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AzyWng

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Re: Phoenix Point : In the works X-COMlike from Gollop
« Reply #383 on: December 03, 2019, 11:50:34 pm »

I wouldn't recommend it from what I've seen on the stream.

I just...

The list of issues is long enough to make a noose (and possibly a gallows) out of.

Beaglerush said he's gonna upload his stream of the game to Youtube in a bit. I'll post the link to it when it's up.

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Aoi

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Re: Phoenix Point : In the works X-COMlike from Gollop
« Reply #384 on: December 03, 2019, 11:51:07 pm »

Summary verdict: It's not bad. It's not great. If you liked XCOM and want more, sure, why not. It doesn't have those stupid XCOM 'pod' spawn mechanic, so overwatch is actually useful here to camp around with. The downside is that less than... what, five hours? in, I'm finding the random maps repetitive. And, worst of all: I just shut it down to wrap up the night finishing a The X-Com Files map I stopped in the middle of.

Just did fourfive missions, skipping the tutorial as per one of the previous recommendations... yeah, the tutorial's pretty unnecessary if you're used to games of this genre; just lookup what free aiming is and figure out the rest.

Units don't really step out of cover at all, unless you tell them to... A lot of the objects are destructable too, though it won't auto-target through it... even in cases where you'd think it would, like non-bulletproof glass. Having said that, I didn't really have that problem. I could aim a shot when hiding behind a barn wall, next to the open door, like I was standing in the middle of the opening.

The tutorial not explicitly saying you should bring extra ammo I can give a pass-- on neither of my missions did I even use up more than half of anybody's ammo. To be fair, I also basically didn't use the Heavy, who only gets six shots... he's just so awkward to use, with almost no movement points and awful accuracy. His one redeeming factor is that he starts with jumpjets which gives him massive mobility, but he can't attack the same turn, so I've mostly been using him as a forward scout. Maybe I'm giving people too much credit, but if you're running out of ammo in the first few missions and you haven't figured out "It might be good to bring extra."... (On the other hand, I just came out of a fun X-Com Files mission where I accidentally equipped myself with the wrong ammo, so I had to fight my way through a factory with two crowbars, so PEBCAK's alive and well.)

The food icon feels a lot too much like the Apple logo, particularly on the white and glass food crates.

There are some weird targeting issues-- like I had one target clipping through a wall and it should have been a 100% hit, given the size. Instead, it hit the wall (and destroyed it).

I THINK the destructable terrain can deal damage-- I got a grenade thrown at a crate on the other side of a wall, and when the wall blew, I shouldn't've taken grenade damage, but my hp bar showed up when the chunk of wall went flying my way.

---

One thing that's kind of nifty is that your units get a share of the mission xp based on their contribution, but you also get 1sp for every 100xp that you can apply towards anybody or bank (presumably in the case of a future new recruit). Helps out if somebody consistently has poor contribution but you want to keep them around, or something.

Okay, it kind of bugs me how somebody can take 3 burstshot milspec assault rifle salvos to an unarmored part of the face and not die.

Appears to be no easy way to compare equipment?

---

Researching combat gear and getting new equipment doesn't quite feel as exciting. Raise a few numbers, move on.

---

Okay, that's kind of funny. You can hit targets with a melee weapon... or you can attack with a melee weapon. Which is hitting them, but, yanno. In actual gameplay terms, it doesn't seem to be a bad deal-- monstrous damage, no miss, and usually other nice side effects. The downside: Unlike an assault rifle, which can easily deal death from 10 tiles away... twice a round, if you don't move, or a sniper rifle, which can do it from like 15 tiles... you have to be in their face.

Pistols are really good weapons for snipers-- a sniper shot takes 3AP, and a pistol takes 1AP. Any kind of extended movement and they can't attack unless they've got a backup. And with the accuracy bonuses they're probably packing, a pistol at long range can do plenty in their hands.

Didn't think too much on this, but cover, by virtue of how to-hit works now, is actually... cover. Ducking behind a waist-high metal desk is going to be a lot more effective than a 3/4ths high wooden wall: The wall is going to fall apart at the first few shots, but that desk might actually survive a salvo or two. Assuming they don't just shoot you in the head.

--

Grenades look pretty weak, but they actually deal damage in a weird way that I'm not sure how it works out yet-- despite doing nominally 50 damage, the one I just used did something like 200 damage to various body parts, disabling three of them (causing an extra 30 bleed a turn, plus extra effects). They're a keeper, just not for straight damage.

At least on the default difficulty, you can restart any map you're on in case you screw up. Like sending 6 of 8 of your squad to the roof where, just out of LoS, three grenadier mobs were hanging out. Oops.

---

Will be continuing to update as impressions change.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 06:06:58 am by Aoi »
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Farce

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Re: Phoenix Point : In the works X-COMlike from Gollop
« Reply #385 on: December 04, 2019, 01:07:16 am »

Free aim seems like a weird thing to have in a turn-based tactics kinda game?  Like, Future Tactics had it and the only real reason that game was cool was because Tim Follins did the music for it I think.

Aoi

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Re: Phoenix Point : In the works X-COMlike from Gollop
« Reply #386 on: December 04, 2019, 01:47:53 am »

Free aim seems like a weird thing to have in a turn-based tactics kinda game?  Like, Future Tactics had it and the only real reason that game was cool was because Tim Follins did the music for it I think.

I don't know how the term is usually used, but in this case, instead of getting a %tohit number, you have to aim two concentric circles that represent where 100/50% of the bullets will land. It's an interesting idea-- it allows you to roughly control where the shots that miss will land (such as hitting a target behind, blowing up an oil tank, etc.), as well as letting you target specific body parts.

Like, I just had a target that was, by default, aiming at a fairly slim piece of arm and leg. That specific unit could get two shots off that turn, so I shifted the aim over to destroy a pillar first, which gave me a clear line of shot to the body. (Incidentally, about half the shots missed the pillar and hit it anyways, so... yeah.)
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 01:50:31 am by Aoi »
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scriver

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Re: Phoenix Point : In the works X-COMlike from Gollop
« Reply #387 on: December 04, 2019, 02:55:03 am »

Free aim seems like a weird thing to have in a turn-based tactics kinda game?  Like, Future Tactics had it and the only real reason that game was cool was because Tim Follins did the music for it I think.

I'm now unsure what free aim means, because I assumed it was like how in Jagged Alliance 2 you can shoot everywhere.

And Jagged Alliance 2 is like the best turn based tactics game that's been made, and being able to aim everywhere is part of the reason why it's that good.
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Aoi

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Re: Phoenix Point : In the works X-COMlike from Gollop
« Reply #388 on: December 04, 2019, 03:17:27 am »

I'll just leave this here, so everybody's clear on it... it's a pretty succinct description and I don't think there's anything factually conflicting: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/12/03/phoenix-point-free-aim-and-part-damage-guide-how-to-use-the-free-aiming-system-for-more-precise-shots/
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scriver

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Re: Phoenix Point : In the works X-COMlike from Gollop
« Reply #389 on: December 04, 2019, 04:34:45 am »

Ah, i see.

By the way, is Phoenix using the xcom engine? It looks like it's using the xcom engine.
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