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[Puzzlemaker]

Islamophobia isn't really warranted.  Lots of practitioners that have nothing to do with any extremism all around the world. 

Wahhabiphobia IS warranted though.  Lets try to be accurate with our fears, at the very least.

[Neonivek]

Islamophobia isn't really warranted.  Lots of practitioners that have nothing to do with any extremism all around the world. 

Wahhabiphobia IS warranted though.  Lets try to be accurate with our fears, at the very least.

Well the Islamophobia in the UK sort of existed before ISIS and the direct fear of terrorism. Something about the problem created by Cultural Ghettos and lack of assimilation.

I'd say "Changing the values of our country" but... I think that was part of Canadian Islamophobia, that Muslims would enter Canada and change our country from progressive to regressive (as crazy as that is... for CANADA to worry about that and specifically target Muslims... because yeah NO OTHER country has traditional family values.) because they don't accept our way of life.
-Then again the whole Canadian Backlash might have to do with the brief stint of honor killings. Which the Muslim community was quick to denounce as unacceptable, because... of course it was unacceptable.

[Helgoland]

Substitute 'Muslims' by 'Jews' and you'll see where the problem is.

FYI, this is not a hypothetical.

[scriver]

"Islamophobia" has about as much to stand on as "Russophobia". No, we are not hateful against Russians because we get upset when they encroach on our airspace or worry about them using harbours on Gotland for intelligence purposes.

Substitute 'Muslims' by 'Jews' and you'll see where the problem is.

You can substitute "Muslims" for "Nazis" as well and it would have as much relevance.

FYI, this is not a hypothetical.

And that would be applicable to the situation if we were only talking about 1000 people rather than millions.

[Helgoland]

Substitute 'Muslims' by 'Jews' and you'll see where the problem is.

You can substitute "Muslims" for "Nazis" as well and it would have as much relevance.

Substituting a people for a people is slightly different from substituting for a people the modern equivalent of the legions of hell.

FYI, this is not a hypothetical.

And that would be applicable to the situation if we were only talking about 1000 people rather than millions.

Oh, the reason that ship wasn't let in was that folks thought the number of refugees coming over from Europe had become unreasonably high. Read up on the Kindertransport for more details.

In contrast to the Kindertransport, where the British Government waived immigration visa requirements, these OTC children received no United States Government visa immigration assistance. Furthermore, it is documented that the State Department deliberately made it very difficult for any Jewish refugee to get an entrance visa. And it was even harder to secure the appropriate papers for their parents, hence most had to remain in Europe.

[scriver]

Islam is not a people. It is a religion, and religions have much more in common with ideologies than with peoples. You are born into your people, you choose your religion.

FYI, this is not a hypothetical.

And that would be applicable to the situation if we were only talking about 1000 people rather than millions.

Oh, the reason that ship wasn't let in was that folks thought the number of refugees coming over from Europe had become unreasonably high.

And therefore you conclude that no other number, regardless of how high it is, is an unreasonable high number?

[Neonivek]

Islam is not a people. It is a religion, and religions have much more in common with ideologies than with peoples. You are born into your people, you choose your religion.

While that is true. Lets be real here, we aren't talking about Muslims IN GENERAL. We are talking about the "Undesirable" ones aren't we? The ones who are of a specific race.

And therefore you conclude that no other number, regardless of how high it is, is an unreasonable high number?

Well that is the question isn't it... WAS The number too high? and why was it too high?

Was the UK's infrastructure collapsing under the weight? Or is there... some other underlying issue?

[Sheb]

But you see, you can't claim you're only Islamophobe against extremists if the policy you're arguing for is a complete entry ban for all Muslims. I'm not saying that's your position scriver, but just pointing out that saying that:

Yes? You're not going to find any objections to that statemeny among people critical of Islam. It's the "any criticism of Islam is racism!" crowd that's going to have a problem with it.

Is wrong. Plenty of people critical of Islam do dislike all muslims as a blanket thing.

[scriver]

Ah yes, I'll give you that.

[Neonivek]

we're already overcrowded

Well if you want to fight against globalists you might want to throw out that old myth. This isn't an episode of Captain Planet (Which by the way, they had two episodes dedicated to this!)

It helps when the excuses to justify a stop to Muslim Immigration weren't... you know... empty excuses with the façade of validity.

the ones we have aren't assimilating to the standard I would like'

This is also one I tried NOT to bring up too heavily because if I was wrong and this wasn't an issue... it would be a sign of racism.

[Neonivek]

We have a population approximately a sixth that of the USA, in an area that could fit into the United States 40 times over. Moreover, it's highly concentrated in England. The vast majority of immigrants aren't going to be settling in the (relatively sparsely populated) Scottish highlands.

And the entire population of the US could happily live... in Texas. Which is twice the size of the UK.

[Neonivek]

I invite you to make that suggestion to them and see how they respond.

It is more that the "overcrowding" is more a product of poor infrastructure and design.

Well... More that it was once good design but population increases change the needs.

Or rather what hilariously happened to Brasilia which was supposed to be a perfect city.

Edit: Interestingly, after looking into things... A million temporary immigrants over 3 years? That is about right for the UK.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10509723/UK-population-could-hit-132-million-warn-official-figures.html

[Neonivek]

I thought a moment ago you were saying it was a myth?

It is, it assumes that no significant changes will occur in order to mitigate or eliminate the problem. It is also ignoring that the cause of overpopulation isn't the population but the handling of the population.

It is basically blaming the EFFECT... for the cause.

That is the myth.

Increasing the population doesn't make the problem go away, nor should it aggravate it (Mostly because the UK is doing the bare minimum in keeping up). Though it IS interesting that a population decrease is devastating for a country.

[Loud Whispers]

Btw: do British muslims eat black pudding? I just thought that it sounds like something that wouldnt fit dietary restrictions...

Black pudding made from pig blood and skin naturally isn't halal, but black pudding made from lamb or cow blood is completely fine. I believe blood is only an issue for certain kosher requirements. Note as well, the question of whether "muslims" eat black pudding is different from whether black pudding is halal, as alcohol is haram, yet all the same British muslims imbibe it, as is the case in many Muslim countries in the world. So you can go down to Malaysia for example and the cashiers will all have "no alcohol for under 21s and Muslims" but the edgy teens still behave like edgy teens

Well the Islamophobia in the UK sort of existed before ISIS and the direct fear of terrorism. Something about the problem created by Cultural Ghettos and lack of assimilation.

The UK has not had this problem until after labour's mass immigration policy post 9/11. Before then, assimilation was the standard, after that the government did its best to stop assimilation in order to make Britain "multicultural."

I'd say "Changing the values of our country" but... I think that was part of Canadian Islamophobia, that Muslims would enter Canada and change our country from progressive to regressive (as crazy as that is... for CANADA to worry about that and specifically target Muslims... because yeah NO OTHER country has traditional family values.) because they don't accept our way of life.
-Then again the whole Canadian Backlash might have to do with the brief stint of honor killings. Which the Muslim community was quick to denounce as unacceptable, because... of course it was unacceptable.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This is Ontario's Lesbian Feminist Premier sitting at the back of a mosque by herself wearing a veil on the orders of the imam while the men she intended to address prayed
Contrast with Marine Le Pen who canceled her meeting with the Grand Mufti of Lebanon when he told her to wear a veil

Who is going to assimilate whose culture

Look at the face of your premier. What happened to Canadian resolve

While that is true. Lets be real here, we aren't talking about Muslims IN GENERAL. We are talking about the "Undesirable" ones aren't we? The ones who are of a specific race.

Gingers aren't that bad tbh

I invite you to make that suggestion to them and see how they respond.

It's even more hilarious considering how Texas used to belong to Mexico until illegal American immigrants enriched Texas with their culture. It was only a few thousand American immigrants, just seeking a better life, those bigoted Mexicans who tried shutting down the border were just being racist for fearing that the WASPs would refuse to assimilate into Catholic Mexican culture

[Neonivek]

Who is going to assimilate whose culture

Look at the face of your premier. What happened to Canadian resolve

Canada doesn't want to assimilate cultures.

That is kind of not our goal here.

So... Thank you? If they want to "assimilate" Canada they better get in line with all the other cultures within Canada.

Not to mention there are... negative implications of any society that has a strong sense of assimilation. A current embarrassment in Canada is how we are slowly assimilating Inuit culture passively.