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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 780306 times)

Rusty Shackleford

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1770 on: May 04, 2017, 04:48:44 pm »

If you can send squads of legendarily lethal and effective soldiers out on the world map, anywhere to anything including routine disposal of dangerous wildlife, bandit camps, nightcreatures and Ettins and the like, is there any point to adventure mode?
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1771 on: May 04, 2017, 05:44:01 pm »

If you can send squads of legendarily lethal and effective soldiers out on the world map, anywhere to anything including routine disposal of dangerous wildlife, bandit camps, nightcreatures and Ettins and the like, is there any point to adventure mode?
"The long-term goal is to create a fantasy world simulator in which it is possible to take part in a rich history, occupying a variety of roles through the course of several games."

I don't see how sending a squad out from a fortress and seeing what happens is in any way similar to playing a thief and raiding a tomb. Maybe at some utterly un-fun level where you play Dwarf Fortress to achieve some kind of "high-score" for stuff gained. Sure glad that's not the game being developed here.

You may as well ask what's the point in Fortress mode when you can just tweak the advanced world generation settings to ensure the extinction of all dwarves right from the beginning? Or, hey, what's the point in playing computer games at all?

--edit
Ok, perhaps you really are confused. Here's a better answer:
1) Fortress mode will allow you to send a squad off the map. They report to you when you get back.

2) Adventurer lets you play as a member of a squad sent on an adventurer from a town/fortress, etc (plus a whole load of other stuff).

The two modes are becoming more and more integrated as time goes on until eventually you get to the goal I quoted above with the ability to play sites and individuals anywhere in the world (and perhaps, maybe, a 'whole civ' level one day).
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 05:58:44 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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Urist McVoyager

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1772 on: May 04, 2017, 05:55:31 pm »

If you can send squads of legendarily lethal and effective soldiers out on the world map, anywhere to anything including routine disposal of dangerous wildlife, bandit camps, nightcreatures and Ettins and the like, is there any point to adventure mode?

They're two different flavors to scratch two different itches. Fortress mode for those of us who only want to command others. Adventure mode for those of us who want to do stuff ourselves. Being able to send others to do everything doesn't negate the satisfaction of being able to go do it yourself.
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Max™

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1773 on: May 05, 2017, 12:53:33 pm »

Not to mention: the option to send out squads should end up allowing an adventurer lord to send their own hearthpersons on quests at some point.

You build a fort as a place for things to happen.
You play an adventurer to go see things happen and try to take part in them.
You read legends mode to see what things happened in places you weren't or couldn't check out.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1774 on: May 06, 2017, 06:10:03 pm »

I hope there's some balance as to how exactly effective the NPC squads are at sending out expeditions, else there will be no wild beasts or monsters left for us to slay. Adventurers will probably be responsible for clearing away the backlog of things while the fully equipped NPC teams sweep away the dangerous elements slowly on a regular basis by patrolling the outskirts trying to track down a beast or artifact.

On one hand that's good that away from civilisation there will be more monsters actively roaming around without getting sniped by civilisations moving into the territory, the bad part is that when eventually there are lots of towns it'll probably naturally progress on to the age of "____" as per course of expeditions severely displacing natural animal & monster numbers exaggerating civvie numbers.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 06:19:27 pm by FantasticDorf »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1775 on: May 07, 2017, 03:53:22 am »

The "Current Development" note 05/06/2017 mentions fortress artifact theft using essentially the same mechanics as current Kobold theft does, which is not going to work to get an artifact unless you deliberately build a very unsafe fortress (and even then, Keas are much more likely to be able to steal an artifact than anything on foot for a pure theft [i.e. no combat] path).
Are there plans to add fortress artifact theft mechanics that have better chances to succeed, and if so, would the target be for later in the current arc or for a future one?
I have to delve into suggestion-y territory to explain what I mean: Something along the line of tavern visitors who just happen to wander into the museum and drop the artifact into their pockets (basically the way vampires operate: hidden in plain sight). However, for this to be balanced, there would need to be some means by which the fortress could deal with those wanderers (guards who react to crimes [or at least theft of artifacts they're set to guard], restricted access areas [artifact thieves and vampires wouldn't respect them, but they would be respected by "legitimate" visitors, such as diplomats and petitioners], working [as in "activated by visitors"] pressure plates/traps or the like), short of just banning all visitors.
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DG

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1776 on: May 07, 2017, 05:25:42 am »

I have a feeling it will wait for the crime/law arc before expanded thievery starts to get looked at.
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Eric Blank

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1777 on: May 07, 2017, 02:41:15 pm »

Are questers able to attempt to make trades for artifacts in making requests?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 04:17:14 pm by Eric Blank »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1778 on: May 07, 2017, 02:53:22 pm »

Are questers able to attempt to make trades for artifacts in making requests?
If that question was aimed at Toady you should mark it in (lime) green (by modifying your post). That's the convention used to draw his attention to what to be answered to set it apart from the noise in this thread.
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Rusty Shackleford

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1779 on: May 07, 2017, 04:02:59 pm »

I wonder with artifact theft raids and wars if an aventurer couldn't just grab it and drop it off wherever and circumvent the entire process.

Would the wars ever be settled? Or would civilizations be forever locked in a horribld neverending war over the possession of a legendary gypsum mug?

I guess it needs a magic element for it to make much sense. Nations now don't go to war over masterpieces of art but if you had a mug that cured any illness or somesicj if you drank from it I could see wars happening.
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Eric Blank

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1780 on: May 07, 2017, 04:17:48 pm »

Are questers able to attempt to make trades for artifacts in making requests?
If that question was aimed at Toady you should mark it in (lime) green (by modifying your post). That's the convention used to draw his attention to what to be answered to set it apart from the noise in this thread.

Yeah I'm not paying good attention to what im doing today >_>
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"THEN CAME TOBNOM, ASS-GOD".
I have no idea where anything is. I have no idea what anything does. This is not merely a madhouse designed by a madman, but a madhouse designed by many madmen, each with an intense hatred for the previous madman's unique flavour of madness.

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1781 on: May 07, 2017, 04:38:33 pm »

I wonder with artifact theft raids and wars if an aventurer couldn't just grab it and drop it off wherever and circumvent the entire process.

Would the wars ever be settled? Or would civilizations be forever locked in a horribld neverending war over the possession of a legendary gypsum mug?

I guess it needs a magic element for it to make much sense. Nations now don't go to war over masterpieces of art but if you had a mug that cured any illness or somesicj if you drank from it I could see wars happening.
Artifact hunting spies/adventurers, etc will try to track the location of the artifact through rumours and such. And as Toady just said, if an adventurer (player or otherwise) has taken it, you'll have the opportunity to tell the invading army that when they come to negotiate.

People go to war over objects in fantasy all the time. "Fantasy world generator" is the key phrase. It's not a reality generator as some people claim. Elves go to war over trees, humans go to war over their actual existing gods holy artifacts, goblins go to war over legendary artifact socks (for...whatever reason...goblins are weird).
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 04:50:20 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1782 on: May 08, 2017, 05:07:22 pm »

Put it down to goblins want to fufill their demonic masters wishes and outfit them with as much unbreakable & well refined weapons & armor as possible so that they can establish the most dominant rule of the land i suppose. Then stab them horribly & take their place, as goblins do.
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triskaideka

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1783 on: May 09, 2017, 02:53:46 pm »

For myths and magic, will it be possible for non-goblin civs (or heretic adventurers) to align with, serve, and worship demons consciously (as opposed to being duped or conquered)?
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MrWiggles

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1784 on: May 10, 2017, 01:48:50 am »

For myths and magic, will it be possible for non-goblin civs (or heretic adventurers) to align with, serve, and worship demons consciously (as opposed to being duped or conquered)?
Yep.
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