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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 705285 times)

Novel Scoops

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2565 on: October 05, 2017, 12:24:27 pm »

WHen the graphic overhaul comes (I'm aware that's a long time from now), will there be an option to switch back to ASCII? Not a graphics fan here.

Pretty certain. Next!
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2566 on: October 05, 2017, 01:17:05 pm »

@JesterHell696: I think you've got the wrong impression of what quantum computers are. They're not insanely powerful versions of the current von Neumann computers, but more akin to array processors or graphics processors, i.e. devices very good at a limited set of tasks (such as rendering the current financial network's encryption almost totally useless as protection against an attack against any selected individual transactions, but not all at once, for instance, assuming the attacker has access to such computers, of course). The analogy isn't quite accurate, as the domain in which quantum computers shine is one where current computers curl up in a ball and cry, rather than just one or two orders of magnitude faster (NP complete problems, in math terminology). A quantum co-processor would e.g. be handy for path finding (but you'd still have to write a special program for the co-processor), as it should be possible to compute the actual cheapest path for dorfs according to the penalties applied in little time. Alas, quantum co-processors for private use are probably a very long way off.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2567 on: October 05, 2017, 03:50:44 pm »

WHen the graphic overhaul comes (I'm aware that's a long time from now), will there be an option to switch back to ASCII? Not a graphics fan here.
Text based graphics is a fairly established form of expression nowadays. While I don't know what Toady eventually plans, it would be sufficient for a  'graphics overhaul' just to add comprehensive support for adding graphics, larger and multiple tilesets, color customization, etc. Anything more would surely just limit the game.

Just thinking about the amount of time it would take to create procedurally generated pixel art that accurately represents the hundreds of possible variants of procedurally generated main races after mythgen, along with support for whatever modifications people want to add to those variants is pretty mind boggling. Would much rather Toady embraced text and the limitless power of the imagination (while updating everything to be as moddable as possible).
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2568 on: October 06, 2017, 11:32:01 am »

Something entered my mind after listening in to the recent EXAG talk attentively, more of a little observation that came around from looking inside goblin psychology & behaviours when you have them as fortress citizens and observe their likes/dislikes & thoughts.

Goblins are good at lying anyway as its actually on one of thier civ values that is frequently levelled up in skills that may generate potential pleasure, but would it be possible to "break" a spy on the opposite end of the personal individuals spectrum (Lying = Truth values) as a goal - past the currently impending update (at a later date if the system recieves more work to tie up loose ends described in the talk that are partially completed) - by exploiting a individual with high truth values who sincerely dislikes lying but is pushed into the role anyway by the selection algorithms.

Here's to making a unusually honest spy completely flip back to its original identity in the middle of town dropping the secret identity of its own volition or giving up and go on a rampage deliberately by poking enough holes in its story and/or drive it beserk/catonic/suicidal by giving it constant unhappy thoughts by making it lie to avoid disrupting their mission.

« Last Edit: October 06, 2017, 11:36:04 am by FantasticDorf »
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BenLubar

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2569 on: October 06, 2017, 06:24:56 pm »

I watched your talk on YouTube, and it seems like a lot of the systems in Dwarf Fortress are limited by the fact that computers have a limited amount of RAM.

What limitation of Dwarf Fortress itself has caused you the most trouble?
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kontako

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2570 on: October 06, 2017, 10:33:48 pm »

Can you take on the identity of another character? If I were to kill a king, dress as them and dispose of their body will I be able to inherit their position?
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"Confederacy of Businesses"?! By Armok's Blood! These Communist animals are CAPITALISTS!
"This town ain't big enough for the two of us, turkey"
*gobbles menacingly*

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2571 on: October 06, 2017, 11:05:11 pm »

Can you take on the identity of another character? If I were to kill a king, dress as them and dispose of their body will I be able to inherit their position?
Not yet. He covered that in the stream yesterday.
https://youtu.be/t2LEr7Etf9s
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kontako

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2572 on: October 06, 2017, 11:52:38 pm »

Can you take on the identity of another character? If I were to kill a king, dress as them and dispose of their body will I be able to inherit their position?
Not yet. He covered that in the stream yesterday.
https://youtu.be/t2LEr7Etf9s

Hahah, I just came back to say nevermind but you beat me to it.
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"Confederacy of Businesses"?! By Armok's Blood! These Communist animals are CAPITALISTS!
"This town ain't big enough for the two of us, turkey"
*gobbles menacingly*

Mel_Vixen

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2573 on: October 07, 2017, 12:50:45 am »

Quote from: Toady One
Ha ha, yeah, it's a hard problem, but certainly a simple timed event (like the world being bathed in fire in the year 500) is easy enough to manage.  The harder part is more like conditional prophecies, or the fate of a given character hinging on this or that nebulous state.


I dont see that as a problem per se. As with false prophecies and changing fate you could just say a prophecy was broken / false. If there is a nebolous condition then it should be, for the sake of gameplay and openness, be possible to avert or further the fullfillment of that condition/prophecy. There are numerous examples of Prophecies that are tried to be broken in fantasy already - say Pharaos killing the firstborns of an enslaved religious sect.

edit:

Quote from: Toady One
2. Right now we have multiple souls supported for creatures (it's just not used), and there's an "active soul" that gets to control everything.  Smearing that out on a limited basis might end up being in the cards, especially as we get into spell effects like "possession" etc.  Hard to say exactly what though.

This is only a TECHNICAL question (cause recent modding topics) and not because of Politics or whatever: Is the Gender of a being defined within the soul or is it defined by the bodies sex? In Fantasy there allready Genderbender scenarios - for example loki turning into female being. Also the orinetation is stored in the soul right? Would a fem soul in a Male body have bad thoughts?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 05:50:36 am by Mel_Vixen »
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Japa

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2574 on: October 07, 2017, 01:18:18 am »

If a goblin disguised as a human (probably lots of tan paint, I guess) steals from the elves, and a human hears about it and approves, then later finds out it was really a goblin, will the human get a better opinion of the goblins?
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Putnam

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2575 on: October 07, 2017, 01:25:37 am »

WHen the graphic overhaul comes (I'm aware that's a long time from now), will there be an option to switch back to ASCII? Not a graphics fan here.
Same. I like using my imagination to decide what things really look like (same reason I find reading more fun than watching movies).

It is sincerely unlikely that a graphics overhaul would come with actual built-in graphics. The last one certainly didn't.

Detros

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2576 on: October 08, 2017, 05:17:26 am »

Quote from: StagnantSoul
Will we ever be able to run two fortresses at once?
PatrikLundell mentioned portals, and that might be the first feeling of it.  And yeah, as for other instances of it, I'm not sure if there'll be something specific there, or a looser civ mode, out in the distant future of the future.
How possible with current systems are overlapping sites?
Like ability to embark on 1x2 area that already includes two 1x1 forts. Or even to create fort C on 1x2 area that includes right end of 1x5 fort A and left upper corner part of 2x3 fort B? Or making new 1x2 fort inside bigger 3x4 one? Probably all map tiles of new fort will need to be either empty or belonging to (ruins of?) forts of your civ.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2577 on: October 08, 2017, 05:28:18 am »

Quote from: StagnantSoul
Will we ever be able to run two fortresses at once?
PatrikLundell mentioned portals, and that might be the first feeling of it.  And yeah, as for other instances of it, I'm not sure if there'll be something specific there, or a looser civ mode, out in the distant future of the future.
How possible with current systems are overlapping sites?
Like ability to embark on 1x2 area that already includes two 1x1 forts. Or even to create fort C on 1x2 area that includes right end of 1x5 fort A and left upper corner part of 2x3 fort B? Or making new 1x2 fort inside bigger 3x4 one? Probably all map tiles of new fort will need to be either empty or belonging to (ruins of?) forts of your civ.
Not possible in vanilla (but you can embark over an adventurer site), possible with Dfhack.

What exactly do you want to know? What issues there are technically in the code preventing (vanilla) from allowing embark anywhere?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2578 on: October 08, 2017, 06:30:45 am »

Expanding on Shonai_Dweller's comment: DFHack's embark anywhere allows embarking on top of necro towers, vaults, and, I think, existing habitation sites (plus, I assume other non habitation sites I haven't tried, such as labyrinths and tombs). I haven't checked whether you can embark (partially) on top of player created fortresses.
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EPM

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2579 on: October 08, 2017, 01:20:37 pm »

I haven't checked whether you can embark (partially) on top of player created fortresses.

I've done this as part of an experiment on whether doing that or unretiring/reclaiming a site would lead to better FPS, my theory being that an identical map that discarded all the other data attached to the site would be worth a try. (It made no difference for the record, since FPS drops in an aging fort are caused by so many different factors.)

It does lead to the pre-existing inhabitants of the site all being marked Hostile, however, though I'm not sure if this was due to being part of a different civilization (same race) or not, and I cursed myself after the fact for not making note of that detail.
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