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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 681192 times)

Thomasasia

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2580 on: October 08, 2017, 07:12:25 pm »

I saw in some of the myth generator screenshots mentions of souls. Will it be possible to have a Stormbringer-like magical artifact that can kill souls?
Will souls retain any of their qualities or traits from life, if they are reincarnated or sent to another plane?
Speaking of Stormbringer, is there a possibility of sentient or semi-sentient artifacts?
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PlumpHelmetMan

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2581 on: October 08, 2017, 10:23:01 pm »

Sentient artifacts feature in a few of the base stories, so it's certainly something Tarn has pondered.
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Mel_Vixen

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2582 on: October 08, 2017, 11:48:16 pm »

I saw in some of the myth generator screenshots mentions of souls. Will it be possible to have a Stormbringer-like magical artifact that can kill souls?
Will souls retain any of their qualities or traits from life, if they are reincarnated or sent to another plane?
Speaking of Stormbringer, is there a possibility of sentient or semi-sentient artifacts?


I think souls iirc as it stands now incorporate all the mental data of an intelligent being (Name, mental skills, knowledge, motivations etc.) as seperate Datastructure to the body. There were some experiments where people summoned (DF-Hacked) the soul of gods into usefull idiots willing subjects.
Since gods are bodyless entities and keep theyr data i would say that they do retain data. If a souls skills rust in Limbo is to be seen.
As for souled artefacts ... i think the last word on it was "Planed but no ETA"?
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KittyTac

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2583 on: October 09, 2017, 04:22:33 am »

I saw in some of the myth generator screenshots mentions of souls. Will it be possible to have a Stormbringer-like magical artifact that can kill souls?
Will souls retain any of their qualities or traits from life, if they are reincarnated or sent to another plane?
Speaking of Stormbringer, is there a possibility of sentient or semi-sentient artifacts?


I think souls iirc as it stands now incorporate all the mental data of an intelligent being (Name, mental skills, knowledge, motivations etc.) as seperate Datastructure to the body. There were some experiments where people summoned (DF-Hacked) the soul of gods into usefull idiots willing subjects.
Since gods are bodyless entities and keep theyr data i would say that they do retain data. If a souls skills rust in Limbo is to be seen.
As for souled artefacts ... i think the last word on it was "Planed but no ETA"?
Oh crap. Link to the experiments?
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2584 on: October 09, 2017, 09:14:45 am »

Well that sounds like fun, maybe resummon a wizard kept in the afterlife back into the living realm by doing a soul-swap with the wizzes skills, memories and conciousness taking over the host.
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KittyTac

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2585 on: October 09, 2017, 09:17:13 am »

Well that sounds like fun, maybe resummon a wizard kept in the afterlife back into the living realm by doing a soul-swap with the wizzes skills, memories and conciousness taking over the host.

Or maybe, if it's some sort of murderous evil wizard, uncontrollably going on a rampage.
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Dr.ZCochraine

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2586 on: October 09, 2017, 07:08:30 pm »

What sorts of skills will be needed for magic? Or will that be combined with other skils depending on the myth generated and the magical task or item used.
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PlumpHelmetMan

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2587 on: October 09, 2017, 07:32:22 pm »

Magic will be randomly generated along with the myths, so the skills required won't be set in stone.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2017, 07:34:56 pm by PlumpHelmetMan »
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Mel_Vixen

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2588 on: October 10, 2017, 05:59:43 am »

Oh crap. Link to the experiments?

Sadly not. I searched the forums but i cant find it since it was a few months back.
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Putnam

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2589 on: October 10, 2017, 08:34:37 pm »

I saw in some of the myth generator screenshots mentions of souls. Will it be possible to have a Stormbringer-like magical artifact that can kill souls?
Will souls retain any of their qualities or traits from life, if they are reincarnated or sent to another plane?
Speaking of Stormbringer, is there a possibility of sentient or semi-sentient artifacts?


I think souls iirc as it stands now incorporate all the mental data of an intelligent being (Name, mental skills, knowledge, motivations etc.) as seperate Datastructure to the body. There were some experiments where people summoned (DF-Hacked) the soul of gods into usefull idiots willing subjects.
Since gods are bodyless entities and keep theyr data i would say that they do retain data. If a souls skills rust in Limbo is to be seen.
As for souled artefacts ... i think the last word on it was "Planed but no ETA"?
Oh crap. Link to the experiments?

No idea, since souls are only stored in units and gods don't have units (i.e. gods don't have souls).

Bumber

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2590 on: October 11, 2017, 07:17:22 am »

What sorts of skills will be needed for magic? Or will that be combined with other skils depending on the myth generated and the magical task or item used.
I would assume one way would be a bit like musical forms. General magic skills + proficiency for spell types.
I think Toady mentioned that magic could behave like a relationship with an entity. Maybe social skills would be of use in divine spellcasting.

Oh crap. Link to the experiments?
Sadly not. I searched the forums but i cant find it since it was a few months back.
There's one from several years ago: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139278.0
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 07:27:44 am by Bumber »
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Putnam

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2591 on: October 11, 2017, 08:40:22 am »

Ah, right, that. That was hist fig manipulation, nothing to do with souls.

JesterHell696

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2592 on: October 11, 2017, 11:19:27 pm »

Like I said: Imagine whatever non-simulated scenario you think fits best. Myself, I think it makes perfect sense that Dwarves know about distant lands through deities they worship, with the player taking on the role of one.

I think how they know needs to be simulated at least a little, not just hand waved.

There have been several simulation games published over the years in which the player takes on the role of a god. Populous and Black & White are just two examples. How does the deity that the player represents convey their wishes to their followers? I don't believe such games simulate that. And I really don't think players care. "It's F'n Magic" is as good an excuse as any. I think it's safe to say that most players either don't dwell on it or they use their imagination.

You do know that there will be a magic setting right? and that if you set it to "none" there will be no magic and no dwarves, at some point human hamlets will be playable in magic-less worlds, this mean that the game will need to be able to say how they know and not just that they know, and if it can do that for humans then it can do it for dwarves as well.

The hows and whys of magic are part of the reason why there will be a myth generate in the first place, and if magic is set to "none" then the myths the myth generator writes will be false and presumably that means their world formed roughly like ours and little explanation will be needed, but if magic is set higher then the magic of the world will have rules and not just be hand waved as "MAGIC".

I must ask, why do you think that magic will be less detailed then other aspects of DF?

NOTE: While I love the black and white games they are not comparable to DF in terms of depth of simulation.

Is it a simulation first and a game second? Has Toady answered this question before? If not, that's a good question to ask. If being a simulation is more important than being a game, does this mean that playability is to be sacrificed for the sake of making a more realistic simulation?

Unfortunately no.

In some sense, "gameplay", whatever that means, must always win.  But it becomes a blurry concept with realism when you think of different moods you could be going for, and we vaguely slant realistic most of the time.

Well I was wrong, which is not that surprising really, but I know that if personal quantum computers where available I'd want the individual grains of sand to be simulated, that would be detailed and awesome.
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"The long-term goal is to create a fantasy world simulator in which it is possible to take part in a rich history, occupying a variety of roles through the course of several games." Bay 12 DF development page

"My stance is that Dwarf Fortress is first and foremost a simulation and that balance is a secondary objective that is always secondary to it being a simulation while at the same time cannot be ignored completely." -Neonivek

JesterHell696

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2593 on: October 11, 2017, 11:31:35 pm »

@JesterHell696: I think you've got the wrong impression of what quantum computers are. They're not insanely powerful versions of the current von Neumann computers, but more akin to array processors or graphics processors, i.e. devices very good at a limited set of tasks (such as rendering the current financial network's encryption almost totally useless as protection against an attack against any selected individual transactions, but not all at once, for instance, assuming the attacker has access to such computers, of course). The analogy isn't quite accurate, as the domain in which quantum computers shine is one where current computers curl up in a ball and cry, rather than just one or two orders of magnitude faster (NP complete problems, in math terminology). A quantum co-processor would e.g. be handy for path finding (but you'd still have to write a special program for the co-processor), as it should be possible to compute the actual cheapest path for dorfs according to the penalties applied in little time. Alas, quantum co-processors for private use are probably a very long way off.

I do know that there not just "better" processors, its just the the go too "SUUPERR COMPUUTERR" statement, my intent with my comment is that if I had unlimited processing power aka quantum processors in my home computer on top of the standard cpu's and gpu's then I'd want everything to be simulated, right down to the atoms and electrons, even the quantum mechnics of the simulated world if possible.

I know it's ridicules but I've always loved Tim the Toolman Taylor's "MOAR POWER!!!" mentality, its just !!!FUN!!!
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"The long-term goal is to create a fantasy world simulator in which it is possible to take part in a rich history, occupying a variety of roles through the course of several games." Bay 12 DF development page

"My stance is that Dwarf Fortress is first and foremost a simulation and that balance is a secondary objective that is always secondary to it being a simulation while at the same time cannot be ignored completely." -Neonivek

PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2594 on: October 12, 2017, 04:48:12 am »

I saw in some of the myth generator screenshots mentions of souls. Will it be possible to have a Stormbringer-like magical artifact that can kill souls?
Will souls retain any of their qualities or traits from life, if they are reincarnated or sent to another plane?
Speaking of Stormbringer, is there a possibility of sentient or semi-sentient artifacts?


I think souls iirc as it stands now incorporate all the mental data of an intelligent being (Name, mental skills, knowledge, motivations etc.) as seperate Datastructure to the body. There were some experiments where people summoned (DF-Hacked) the soul of gods into usefull idiots willing subjects.
Since gods are bodyless entities and keep theyr data i would say that they do retain data. If a souls skills rust in Limbo is to be seen.
As for souled artefacts ... i think the last word on it was "Planed but no ETA"?
Oh crap. Link to the experiments?

No idea, since souls are only stored in units and gods don't have units (i.e. gods don't have souls).
I don't see any reason for why gods couldn't generate units to store their (newly generated) souls should the need arise. This could happen either as a result of a game event, or as a general change to DF so gods would always have a unit just in case. Soul containing artifacts would presumably have to be units as well.
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