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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 895749 times)

PlumpHelmetMan

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2640 on: October 23, 2017, 01:11:45 pm »

With all due respect, that's not really a FOTF question.
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pikachu17

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2641 on: October 23, 2017, 01:55:53 pm »

Why not?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2642 on: October 23, 2017, 01:57:00 pm »

Why do underground plants have seasonal limitations, and aboveground plants don't?
I agree it's a Past of the Fortress question...
If I understand it correctly, DF once had underground plant farming only, and caverns had seasonal variations in the caverns, like flooding seasons. For whatever reason (presumably game play suitability) the seasonal changes in the caverns were removed, but the plants were not updated. When surface plant farming was introduced seasonal farming associations were not added to those, possibly because a more complex system is intended to eventually be introduced (I can e.g. think of latitude and temperature associations beyond the bare biome ones). It can be noted, though, that wild surface plants have a season bound cycle of when they produce their flowers and seed bearing parts (this is particularly noticeable with trees, as you can't farm those).
People who actually were around at the time might be able to correct me.
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Dwarfu

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2643 on: October 23, 2017, 02:48:31 pm »

Why do underground plants have seasonal limitations, and aboveground plants don't?

It is a valid question.  Patrik's answer gave some history in that the underground plants were there first.  I believe the last FotF thread had Toady's answer, specifically:

Quote from: Toady One
Quote from: Mephansteras
    On a related question about plants: Are there plans to go through and give the various aboveground plants more realistic seasons and growth durations, as well as reasonable harvest seasons for things like fruit?

    Right now they're all pretty much set for any season with short growth durations that allow you to get a crop every season (or more), while the underground plants all have seasons, which doesn't make much sense.


Yeah, I'd like to have the seasons be correct, where seasons even exist, and the biomes are also too non-specific in most cases.  Right now it's a combination of research/data-entry time combined with not having farming finalized and so worrying about wasting mine (or anybody's) time entering info.  I haven't gotten close enough to tackling farming think about how the plant issue is going to be handled.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 02:53:08 pm by Dwarfu »
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PlumpHelmetMan

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2644 on: October 23, 2017, 03:58:52 pm »

Yes, it's a valid question in itself. It just wasn't exactly phrased as a FoTF question, but maybe I'm being too picky.
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Dwarfu

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2645 on: October 23, 2017, 05:18:11 pm »

What is the Manifestation, mentioned in the devlog?
I'm not sure where it was mentioned (I could have sworn it was a devlog, but apparently not), but its a debug tool-created creature.

This tweet?
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2646 on: October 23, 2017, 05:31:01 pm »

Useless post deleted.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 05:32:48 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2647 on: October 23, 2017, 05:34:39 pm »

Outside of being a dev-tool, might it be probable that we see the manifestation-esque beings incarnated into the mainframe of the mythgenerator's resulting creatures & entities?

Indeed, a physical personification of a force, being or concept.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2648 on: October 23, 2017, 05:45:45 pm »

Outside of being a dev-tool, might it be probable that we see the manifestation-esque beings incarnated into the mainframe of the mythgenerator's resulting creatures & entities?

Indeed, a physical personification of a force, being or concept.
Manifestation. A short, cursor shaped being with blatant disregard for clothing.
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Daniel the Finlander

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2649 on: October 23, 2017, 08:44:29 pm »

Once you've revamped economy and agriculture and allowed player fortresses to interact with hill dwarves, (way, way down the line, I know, but it's in the dev.html page anyways), will the player be able to sustain themselves with food anymore or will they need to rely on hill dwarves if they wish to have a decently sized fort?

In the history real world, before the agricultural revoltuion, a family needed about 3 hectares to sustain itself and 5 hectares if it kept animals. Obviously DF worlds are far too small for this degree of realism, but the point still is that a lot of land is needed for agriculture. Fort maps tend to encompass only 9 tiles and thus shouldn't have enough land to sustain too many dwarves. So will the player be reliant on hill dwarves for food? I'm rather curious about this.
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Egan_BW

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2650 on: October 23, 2017, 11:42:44 pm »

Hmm. The player in fortress mode is not Armok. They are Manifestation.

Manifestation may appear visible or not as it pleases, and passes through walls and gives orders without touching the world.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2651 on: October 24, 2017, 12:34:27 am »

Once you've revamped economy and agriculture and allowed player fortresses to interact with hill dwarves, (way, way down the line, I know, but it's in the dev.html page anyways), will the player be able to sustain themselves with food anymore or will they need to rely on hill dwarves if they wish to have a decently sized fort?

In the history real world, before the agricultural revoltuion, a family needed about 3 hectares to sustain itself and 5 hectares if it kept animals. Obviously DF worlds are far too small for this degree of realism, but the point still is that a lot of land is needed for agriculture. Fort maps tend to encompass only 9 tiles and thus shouldn't have enough land to sustain too many dwarves. So will the player be reliant on hill dwarves for food? I'm rather curious about this.
The caverns are full of underground crops too. You can see them if you wander around down there. Presumably to be worked by Deep Dwarves.

Toady mentioned that raiding others for specific items, such as food, might be introduced in the future so I think starving dorfs will be a major source of Fun when the economy hits.
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Egan_BW

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2652 on: October 24, 2017, 12:43:39 am »

What is The Manifestation lore?
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Knight Otu

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2653 on: October 24, 2017, 07:31:41 am »

What is the Manifestation, mentioned in the devlog?
I'm not sure where it was mentioned (I could have sworn it was a devlog, but apparently not), but its a debug tool-created creature.

This tweet?

That's what I was thinking of, yes. Thanks! :)


Outside of being a dev-tool, might it be probable that we see the manifestation-esque beings incarnated into the mainframe of the mythgenerator's resulting creatures & entities?

Indeed, a physical personification of a force, being or concept.
Avatars and the like have become a bit of a fantasy game staple, so chances are good. In one of the DF Talks, Toady mentioned a divine avatar joining you on the quest - a bit tongue-in-cheek - but it's on his radar.

Edit - also this bit from the current dev page:
Quote
Further involvement of deity-level beings and their servants in mortal affairs

    Basic divine law as a precursor to law framework
    Manifestation and even integration with civilizations in high-magic settings
    Conflicts between deities or the confused/imperfect agents of a single deity



What is The Manifestation lore?
In a time between times, the Creator devised the Manifestation so to better observe his Works.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 07:33:28 am by Knight Otu »
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LordBaal

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2654 on: October 24, 2017, 07:49:01 pm »

Will parties going outside the fortress be able to do more mundane stuff like huntting/gathering and logging? That would allow thigs like embarking on a mountain (as it is rigth now) possible.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 11:20:06 am by LordBaal »
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