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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 1047094 times)

FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2700 on: November 04, 2017, 12:00:55 pm »

Will megabeast/titan/demon/historical figure body parts affect artifacts at all, either in the artifact release or magic? There are plenty of legends of stuff "made from the terrible ___'s bones", such as the Celtic Ge Bulg made from the Coinchenn. Currently, generated creature materials have 0 value, and it'd be nice if turning our greatest foes into cool stuff had more oomph.

For example, the [MAGICAL] tag being present on a creature might confer some kind of effect, or a relevant [SPHERE] tag might be inherited by the artifact itself. But at the very least, could generated creatures have materials with value? Even though stuff like swamp titan silk is less valuable than pig tail cloth, it feels extra-special considering the source.

You could easily make a suggestion thread on that, but religious artifacts (posthumerous cut up bits of holy priests) are in the next version so i see what you mean in having a wider range of body parts to venerate, especially since forgotten beasts tend to associate themselves to the caverns & associated (albeit evil) spheres.

Forgotten beast parts are already sort of valuble based on their properties, if the monster has fireproof webs for example then the material property of that carries over to the products, in such a way that ingenious fortress designers create rooms to specially collect deadly dust/secreted materials in order to make their weapons more deadly. In the same way if a forgotten beast had a dense hide/skin, forgotten beast leather from that creature would carry over its properties making better leather armor.
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Caponimoq

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2701 on: November 05, 2017, 12:02:02 pm »

Will be weapon racks and armor stands fixed to store what they were ment to store in the first place?
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Urist McPlayer has been found death

iceball3

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2702 on: November 05, 2017, 02:29:26 pm »

Thanks for the answers, Toady! You're doing good work.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2703 on: November 05, 2017, 03:53:02 pm »

Will be weapon racks and armor stands fixed to store what they were ment to store in the first place?
Bugs will be fixed. Contrary to popular belief, bugs aren't introduced into the game as an amusing joke to frustrate fans.

Yes, some bugs have been around a long time. Most get addressed when that area of the game (furniture) is specifically being worked on. Some get addressed in during the bug fixing phases.
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PlumpHelmetMan

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2704 on: November 05, 2017, 04:15:30 pm »

Indeed. One needs to remember the sheer scope of DF, it's likely to be at least another decade before the game is even half complete.
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Beag

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2705 on: November 05, 2017, 06:28:02 pm »

1. Will body altering corruptions and transform causing curses eventually destroy weak clothes when occurring? For example a were beast's clothes being in tatters from the transformation.
2. Eventually will transforming or having body altering corruptions while wearing hard armor such as metal armor cause damage to the person transforming or being corrupted as they are possibly being restricted in their growth by the armor.
3. In terms of conduct required for afterlives how will our adventurers be able to check where they stand spiritually? Might praying or something similar be a possible way to check how the gods or whatever is in charge of the afterlife feels about you?
4. Eventually will events that currently only happen during world gen like festivals, buildings being built and ceremonies happen post world gen? If so could a player adventure attend the festival, ceremony or seeing the construction of the building?
5. When the first pass of the myth and magic update comes out what sort of magic organizations do you expect to see?
6. Will the player eventually be able to start magic organizations? If so could they try to build a magic academy and be the arch wizard of it?

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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2706 on: November 05, 2017, 07:03:20 pm »

1. Don't quote me on this but at the current state i think werecreatures clothes because they become way too small automatically unequip, you'll need toady's input for thoughts about applying damage in the case of it all happening suddenly. Else you could just make a suggestion in the suggestion subforum instead.

2. There's no known effects we are aware of in the case of corruption and when Toady has i think mentioned it once he sort of dismissed transformative corruption (rather than mental & alignment corruption) with the tentacles & such on account of working out how to add other BP parts (human-horse hybrids like centaurs & molemarians really pushed the BP system to its limit) in gameplay cleanly, because again if that corruption causes them to somehow violate the existing limits of the armor (lets say grow a third arm it can't accommodate &/or cause them to grow in size) then point 1 is relevant for forced unequipping in the current game.

4. some more things like gambling & games are planned on the devlopment plan (which is where you might slip in festivities) but im sure toady will be needed to comment on viewing certain worldgeneration events. It already sort of happens, when goblins sack a site & mutilate the remaining captives, they leave behind grisly monuments which the player in adventurer mode can see.

5 & 6. check the development plan, unless i misunderstand there's different kind of wizards & associations planned (lone tower wizards & groups of wizards etc) here's a quick quote.

Quote from: devlopment plan
Recorded history   
New wizards beyond necromancers: by race, by skill, by object, by corruption, by deal with another power
    Wizards that wander
    Wizards that live in isolation
    Wizards that form groups (councils, covens, etc.), must have rationale (group magic, mutual protection, research, etc.)
    Wizards that involve themselves with civilization
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 07:06:41 pm by FantasticDorf »
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Ggobs

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2707 on: November 06, 2017, 04:00:12 pm »

What are all the different ways items will be able to displayed after the next release?
Will it be only artifacts that will be able to be displayed?
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Knight Otu

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2708 on: November 06, 2017, 06:29:44 pm »

What are all the different ways items will be able to displayed after the next release?
Will it be only artifacts that will be able to be displayed?


From the 08/16/2016 Devlog:

Quote
Started with temple relic storage as a test case, and that seems to work, respecting the pools and so forth. The game has display cases and pedestals now, in all modes. Next I'm going to finish the display jobs in dwarf mode before I get back to maps. You'll be able to display any non-large object you like, and there'll be new thoughts for displayed items similar to the admiration of architecture. So you can set up artifact display areas, or you can just use regular masterpieces, or junk, or skulls, as you see fit. The displayed items show like the food on tables so you can admire them yourself.
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Random Raw Scripts - Randomly generated Beasts , Vermin, Hags, Vampires, and Civilizations
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2709 on: November 06, 2017, 10:02:47 pm »

I wonder if display cases have 'sides' which you can view artifacts from. Maybe point them in a direction like archery targets or something. (Not in lime green, because new release optimism).
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2710 on: November 07, 2017, 03:07:39 am »

If they're described like tables, i imagine like most other furniture they'll be like statues that can be viewed from all sides at a distance passively. Outside of actually interacting with it in which a table has 4 cardinal direction slots for chairs with no diagonals which may be closer to what you're saying shonai_dweller.

When it comes to other things like tombs & such, wall grates work great for being seethrough in cordoning off areas or partitioning without putting down physical barriers so people can run by corridor catacombs & decorative features without actively pathing through somewhere unorthodox. Personally i like putting statues & lots of slabs in these little hidey holes to grab the attention of dwarves running by.

Though barely anybody uses them, metal bars (identical to grates) having no quality modifiers are also adequate because grates divert thoughts away sometimes from the object you are showcasing, if you run past a metal bars cordoned off area (building destroyer 1 safe for starters) you are going to soak in the thoughts of the exhibit rather than the cordon.


Will there be any exceptions to non-building destroyers finding ways around simple destructable obstacles blocking the way to steal artifacts(like wall grates without a door to lockpick to gain entry to a viewing area) or will it have to remain for later arcs when more tools & methods like invaders digging into your fortress are available?

With a sort of worry that by just walling off a precious artifact behind grates/metal bars, the AI may just get confused and like a flytrap get stuck lagging potentially into it with the intention to steal or completely divert away interest making a object basically un-stealable if its not particularly demanded by anybody or required to move off its display.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 11:18:30 am by FantasticDorf »
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hostergaard

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2711 on: November 08, 2017, 08:55:58 am »

Will the myth arc also define gods and other supernatural beings on a world per world basis like magic? That is, what makes a god a god.

I.e. in the case of gods, would we procedurally generate what are their origin, what are their powers, what are their sources of powers, what if at all makes a being able to become a god or stop being a god. And what can, if at all, kill or destroy a god.



I made a suggestion here but would like to hear what Toady is thinking.

To expand a little, it would be interesting if we procedurally defined gods and other supernatural beings. Like what are their origins(One ore more, there may be several sources). Did they arise from a primordial chaos and created the world? Or maybe there was a world and gods rose from aspects of the world (like mountains, rivers, primordial egg fragments or whatever). Perhaps a creator god created sub gods. All different from world to world depending on what is generated. This further help generate what define their sources of power and their domains. Maybe they are fueled by magic, maybe their power is defined by the number of followers or maybe they are powered by physical elements like trees or rivers. Especially if that is their domain, like a god of rivers. Or maybe they are simply powers unto their own.

This, in concert with their personality, then in turn allows you to generate what drives them and what their actions are. Like a god who derives his power from number of followers would do his best to maximize number of followers. Or a god of rivers would maybe look after the health of the rivers in the world.

Furthermore, one could also procedurally generate what forms these gods take and where and what form they interact with the world and their followers. Some gods may not take a form in the physical world and act only trough followers or events, while another may be entirely in the physical form like a giant tree or whatever.

There is much more to be said but I would also point out this also allow one to generate whatever entities can become gods and what actions are required to do so. And also how a god could die, be destroyed, made powerless or stop being a god. If possible at all in that world. Figuring that out would a endgame type of quest and doing lots of scolary work to understand divine beings what makes you able to become one, similar in a way to the secrets of life and death.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 09:09:49 am by hostergaard »
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GoblinCookie

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2712 on: November 08, 2017, 12:40:58 pm »

Is the relationship between the word symbols and things like the names of gods or monsters going to be softcoded as part of the myths/magic release?  At present the word-symbols are a weird hybrid of hardcoded and softcoded, though can be directly edited but they MUST be there exactly as named in vanilla since they used to name things in a hardcoded manner which cannot make use of any new word-symbols that are added in. 

Also, would it be possible to actually add in tokens for symbols themselves? By this I mean adding in the symbols such as is used to randomly generate gods, not the word-symbol tokens.
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Ggobs

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2713 on: November 08, 2017, 12:58:55 pm »

Will there be a general 'Use Magical Device' skill or will there be specific skills for wands, books,
 potions, etc?
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2714 on: November 08, 2017, 01:21:57 pm »

Will there be a general 'Use Magical Device' skill or will there be specific skills for wands, books,
 potions, etc?


Toady has mentioned i think either in his talk or his fortress replies that unique generated skills (which might go the way of instruments to being ambigious until seen in action, really up to toady how to address) as well as complimentary normal labour skills play a part for making & using objects, leveling your "mazu" magic skill for example individual to the culture & magic rules laid out in mythgen with applicable persons & races as well as drawbacks & consequences.

Books, wands and potions can all reasonably draw upon book-binder, woodcrafting & alchemy/brewing etc where appropriate. Still a good question, similar to how untrained crossbow dwarves bludgeon people with their weapons, you probably dont want somebody with no wand-casting skill attempting to stab someone with a blunt wooden 'knife' or misc object.

Just to clarify, if there is going to be randomly generated names for magic skills (just casting out if i got anything wrong or ideas have been changed on it during development), will the ability to mod in pre-fixed magical abilities remain hardcoded, so that the magic skill names are only generated, but doesn't affect the skill itself?

Quote from: example
Any fire magic = "skolderer" skill in dwarvish tongue and stats, but fire imps drawing on exactly the same hardcoded fire magic skill (by being given natural levels similar to climbing & swimming) are seen to also have levels in "Adept/Exeptional Skolderer" for example or another name for fire magic between generated worlds where they are present.
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