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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 1410688 times)

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2865 on: December 06, 2017, 10:02:46 pm »

Bit of a weird one - will modders eventually be able to customize megabeast lairs and habits, or potentially recreate some of the stuff from old versions (don't know if you're planning on bringing some of that stuff back), i.e tentacle demon lairs or underground fortresses?
I'm mostly thinking in terms of lairs and the like for megabeasts and similar critters - in my work I often come across the issue of having none of the available, current site types or habits really fitting what I have in mind. Having those be customizable in some way would be a great help to modders.

Mythgen will have a site editor. Yay!
Eventually...
😀
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KittyTac

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2866 on: December 06, 2017, 10:04:31 pm »

Bit of a weird one - will modders eventually be able to customize megabeast lairs and habits, or potentially recreate some of the stuff from old versions (don't know if you're planning on bringing some of that stuff back), i.e tentacle demon lairs or underground fortresses?
I'm mostly thinking in terms of lairs and the like for megabeasts and similar critters - in my work I often come across the issue of having none of the available, current site types or habits really fitting what I have in mind. Having those be customizable in some way would be a great help to modders.

Mythgen will have a site editor. Yay!
Eventually...
😀

Just a few years.  :D
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MrWiggles

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2867 on: December 06, 2017, 11:58:50 pm »

Bit of a weird one - will modders eventually be able to customize megabeast lairs and habits, or potentially recreate some of the stuff from old versions (don't know if you're planning on bringing some of that stuff back), i.e tentacle demon lairs or underground fortresses?
I'm mostly thinking in terms of lairs and the like for megabeasts and similar critters - in my work I often come across the issue of having none of the available, current site types or habits really fitting what I have in mind. Having those be customizable in some way would be a great help to modders.

Mythgen will have a site editor. Yay!
Eventually...
😀

Just a few years.  :D
Woah. Thats kinda of fast. Maybe Toady should slow down, think it over 8b
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KittyTac

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2868 on: December 07, 2017, 12:20:08 am »

Bit of a weird one - will modders eventually be able to customize megabeast lairs and habits, or potentially recreate some of the stuff from old versions (don't know if you're planning on bringing some of that stuff back), i.e tentacle demon lairs or underground fortresses?
I'm mostly thinking in terms of lairs and the like for megabeasts and similar critters - in my work I often come across the issue of having none of the available, current site types or habits really fitting what I have in mind. Having those be customizable in some way would be a great help to modders.

Mythgen will have a site editor. Yay!
Eventually...
😀

Just a few years.  :D
Woah. Thats kinda of fast. Maybe Toady should slow down, think it over 8b

Well, obviously it'll be buggy at first, as with any other release, so nah. He already filled an entire notebook with mythgen notes, that's enough.
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Urlance Woolsbane

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2869 on: December 07, 2017, 12:30:51 am »

Bit of a weird one - will modders eventually be able to customize megabeast lairs and habits, or potentially recreate some of the stuff from old versions (don't know if you're planning on bringing some of that stuff back), i.e tentacle demon lairs or underground fortresses?
I'm mostly thinking in terms of lairs and the like for megabeasts and similar critters - in my work I often come across the issue of having none of the available, current site types or habits really fitting what I have in mind. Having those be customizable in some way would be a great help to modders.

Mythgen will have a site editor. Yay!
That's not quite the same, though. You'll be able to edit a preexisting world, but creating your own templates is another matter entirely.
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Miuramir

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2870 on: December 07, 2017, 12:40:37 am »

... 1. Can a player eventually escape an afterlife and return to the material plane? Once the escape, can they affect other living things and doing magical stuff including possessing people and reanimating corpses (and even possessing said corpse including your own)?

2. Will there be rituals that will summon other beings from another plane(basically teleporting them into the plane of the summoner)? for example a ritual to call the spirits of the dead from the afterlife to do what the summoner wants (e.g. talking to their loved ones and asking them questions or using them on enemies and even stuff them into corpses including their own) or a ritual that calls the !FUN! from any plane that has them. Could it be extended to any creatures on the same plane?

Yet again, this sort of thing is going to be very dependent on the procedural myths.  Just to take the very first question, some possible takes based on existing world myths (which represent a very small fraction of the sorts of thing the procedural generation will hopefully eventually be capable of) include:

* There is no afterlife.  Death is the end. 
* There is no separate afterlife, because reincarnation is mandatory. 
* There is no discrete afterlife, because your spirit melds with the godhood / AI / universal transcendence in an irrevocable fashion. 
* There are one or more afterlife realms, but for fundamental reasons it is not possible to return. 
* There are one or more afterlife realms, but for fundamental reasons return as a corporeal being is not possible. 
* There are one or more afterlife realms, but return is not possible without outside help or intervention (rescues, summoning, etc.)
* There are one or more afterlife realms, and return is possible but only via an epic quest. 
* There seem to be one or more afterlife realms, but they aren't any more real than the current one, due to it all being the dream of a god / computer simulation / bad joke. 

Plus some that haven't cropped up much in Earth's myths, but are a logical extrapolation of the series:
* There are one or more afterlife realms, and return is fairly easy but no one wants to because the afterlife realms are so much better. 
* There are one or more afterlife realms, and returns happen quite commonly.  The previously-dead dominate family gatherings, etc. 
* There are a large or infinite number of afterlife realms, and you just keep moving on to a different one every time you "die". 

Then you've got some simple possible changes to ring from there, like:
* Small numbers vs. large numbers of options or locations, possibly quite specific
* Moral conduct in life affects what option or location you end up with afterward.
* Adherence to a god or belief system in life affects what option or location you end up with afterward. 
* Personal preference affects what what option or location you end up with afterward. 
* There are limited numbers of spots in some or all of the options or locations.  Entry might be by chance, merit (to whom?), death order, etc. 
* Associations in life (family, friends, marriages, pets, ...) may or may not continue or affect afterward. 
* Things the still-living do may or may not have relevant effects on those past onward. 
* Even within a realm, there are significant differences in experiences for one reason or another (more-or-less fixed qualities, life choices, skills, random chance, death circumstances, etc.)
* Afterlife realms aren't as eternal as they would like you to think, and depend on worldly things like living worshipers / donations / sacrifices to run it all. 

To go with a random idea I just had, what if the afterlife is somewhat like applying for college... different ones have different requirements advantages, and acceptance rates; and you can only list so many.  Do you list a "safe" one fairly high up to minimize risk?  ("I'm pretty sure my dog loves me enough to get into Canine Parkland as a 'helper', but I'd rather go to Endless Plains; but they only take 30,000 people per year, are my marathon times low enough?")  What if deceptive advertising, or at least tricky legalism, affects things?  ("Prophet's Paradise promises a giant marble palace with 72 pale, large-eyed virgins; but doesn't specify *species*, and on a careful read the references to transparent bodies and missing bodily functions are a bit disturbing, really; plus the difficult entrance requirements. I'm listing Bro Beyond as my first choice; they're offering a 400 sq. ft. apartment with utilities covered, at least one sorority apartment in the same building, and a fruit basket on arrival.  With two family members already there, I'm just about guaranteed a spot.") 
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Max™

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2871 on: December 08, 2017, 05:41:14 am »

Were worldgen artifacts supposed to be just masterwork quality with the artifact flags set?
Do said artifact flags imbue the relevant accuracy/indestructibility benefits beyond having a name/tracked history?
Were items an adventurer names supposed to get anything beyond being named?
Was the rumors list supposed to end up with dozens of pages about how a particular artifact is absent from every site you've visited and didn't see it at, or should that be another bug report?
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ZM5

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2872 on: December 08, 2017, 08:07:32 am »

Bit of a weird one - will modders eventually be able to customize megabeast lairs and habits, or potentially recreate some of the stuff from old versions (don't know if you're planning on bringing some of that stuff back), i.e tentacle demon lairs or underground fortresses?
I'm mostly thinking in terms of lairs and the like for megabeasts and similar critters - in my work I often come across the issue of having none of the available, current site types or habits really fitting what I have in mind. Having those be customizable in some way would be a great help to modders.

Mythgen will have a site editor. Yay!
That's not quite the same, though. You'll be able to edit a preexisting world, but creating your own templates is another matter entirely.
Yeah, its what I meant - being able to create your own templates for site types, both civ sites and beast lairs - possibly allowing support for different habits than the current ones as well. I'd love for some megas, i.e ettins, to, lets say, have cages full of prisoners, set up in a line next to a large table with a cleaver stuck to it and meat in a bucket next to it, or like the old tentacle demons just having caged prisoners with the implications being obvious - basically little small story stuff that adds a bit of flavour, allows for new mission types as well.

MachinaMandala

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2873 on: December 08, 2017, 08:15:42 am »

It'd be nice to have more template stuff to work with, especially with what materials cities can be built out of / layouts.

In fact...

Toady, would you consider spending a release cycle adding more modding functionality (like the template stuff mentioned in this thread) and maybe fixing bugs / improving pathfinding?

I have no doubt people would complain because of a lack of features, but a code rewrite might be a good idea even if it took a year.
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therahedwig

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2874 on: December 08, 2017, 08:24:31 am »

It'd be nice to have more template stuff to work with, especially with what materials cities can be built out of / layouts.

In fact...

Toady, would you consider spending a release cycle adding more modding functionality (like the template stuff mentioned in this thread) and maybe fixing bugs / improving pathfinding?

I have no doubt people would complain because of a lack of features, but a code rewrite might be a good idea even if it took a year.

He uh... He does a bugfix cycle every time after a big release, and that include occasional code rewrites(like the way how zombies were made a bit easier to handle). You proly didn't know that given how new your forum account is, so here you go. :)
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MachinaMandala

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2875 on: December 08, 2017, 08:39:59 am »

He uh... He does a bugfix cycle every time after a big release, and that include occasional code rewrites(like the way how zombies were made a bit easier to handle). You proly didn't know that given how new your forum account is, so here you go. :)

A real bugfix cycle. There's still many bugs left on the Mantis tracker. Stuff like IMPAIRFUNCTION syndromes don't update except when the limb gets damaged.
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therahedwig

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2876 on: December 08, 2017, 08:50:19 am »


A real bugfix cycle. There's still many bugs left on the Mantis tracker. Stuff like IMPAIRFUNCTION syndromes don't update except when the limb gets damaged.
What is a "real" bugfix cycle? Because many of the bugs on mantis are a problem with temporary systems that will go away later, so completely emptying mantis is not possible at this point.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2877 on: December 08, 2017, 09:11:55 am »

He uh... He does a bugfix cycle every time after a big release, and that include occasional code rewrites(like the way how zombies were made a bit easier to handle). You proly didn't know that given how new your forum account is, so here you go. :)

A real bugfix cycle. There's still many bugs left on the Mantis tracker. Stuff like IMPAIRFUNCTION syndromes don't update except when the limb gets damaged.
The answer is no. There may be more or less emphasis on bug fixing (it was "less" in the last arc), but every arc aims at moving DF forward along some dimension. As therahedwig said, system rewrites are the main places where bugs in those rewrites are addressed. When/if something is considered actually finished I would guess fixing bugs in those systems get increased priority.
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MrWiggles

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2878 on: December 10, 2017, 04:04:30 pm »

He uh... He does a bugfix cycle every time after a big release, and that include occasional code rewrites(like the way how zombies were made a bit easier to handle). You proly didn't know that given how new your forum account is, so here you go. :)

A real bugfix cycle. There's still many bugs left on the Mantis tracker. Stuff like IMPAIRFUNCTION syndromes don't update except when the limb gets damaged.
Yea. Screw this all This Fake Bug Fixing. Its a faccade and charade all this time. I'm onto you Toady, and your fake bug fixing!
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Killermartian

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2879 on: December 11, 2017, 03:56:48 am »

Do you plan on adding any more (l)ocations?
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