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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 283661 times)

thvaz

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1590 on: March 20, 2017, 08:22:59 pm »

"The odd time differences continue to cause trouble as usual -- on a medium map, going from tip to tip on a world-spanning crescent shaped continent takes ~18 days. So if there aren't weird interruptions (like your dwarf squad stopping for a bender at a human tavern), you can expect even the longest journies to be over in a month or so, which passes relatively quickly in fort mode. We might adjust the times a bit if it's too strange, but we'd like to keep everything as consistent as possible (since there are lots of non-player armies moving around the map at these speeds).  "


Source : http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/

18 days ~ 2 weeks.
Hence my question. The issue is the SIZE of the world.

It explicitly says that the mission would take over a month since the 18 days is one way, if you really read what you're posting.

Not only that, but that's a medium world; large worlds will take longer to cross.

Well, one month if you sent your squad to the other side of the continent; you may need to send them a lot closer. They would blink in and out of the fortress.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1591 on: March 20, 2017, 08:51:18 pm »

In the last FotF you said there would be "nothing fighty" for the missions yet. What are the "generic raids" spoken of in the 3/18 blog post? Is it just a hostile/negative diplomatic action?
As mentioned in PC gamer, incidental fights will occur. You're not going to rescue children and artifacts with no-one noticing. I imagine 'not fighty' to mean specific combat missions 'go kill this Titan', 'go attack this bandit camp' and of course the future clash of armies type of 'fighty' which is still a long way off.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 08:53:02 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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iceball3

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1592 on: March 20, 2017, 11:08:07 pm »

What would be the effective duration that the individual tasks take when attempted in post-worldgen, will the events themselves (not traveling) be near instantaneous and travelling itself be static, or will obstacles such as negotiations, intermittent stops (sleeping, acquiring rations, slowing by weather, travelling offroad, confrontation, injured dwarves and treating injured dwarves) hinder mission time any? Will any of the above affect morale and stress of the dwarves themselves in any manner?
Will squads or individuals pursue personal interests en route to their destination, or change their plans in the event that the conditions of the mission change the situation initially planned for, or in the event that squad members come across a situation or circumstance that inspires their ambition?
As increased interactivity with the outside world increases, the dwarf-mode adventure-mode time discrepancies begin to become more significant. How do you plan to address certain situations where the discrepancies are pretty significant? For instance, on a slightly large embark at a distance of a handful local regional tiles away, if you send out an expedition, it will take significantly longer for your dwarves to get off of your front lawn than it will take for them to cross the geographically longer distance to the site.

I imagine this can be mitigated somewhat by allowing dwarves to leave and re-enter the site via minecart, in particular in the instances of the lack of (and before the implementation of) inter-site minecarts: the only purpose of the minecarts being to move the squad on to an abstract close off-site hub where they can begin their travels, unhindered by fortress time dilation.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 11:13:21 pm by iceball3 »
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Max™

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1593 on: March 20, 2017, 11:24:03 pm »

Oh heavens I never knew how badly I wanted minecart powered fortress ejection seats.
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Engraved here is a rendition of an image of the Dwarf Fortress learning curve. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. It depicts an obsidian overhang which menaces with spikes of obsidian and tears. Carved on the overhang is an image of Toady One and the players. The players are curled up in a fetal position. Toady One is laughing. The players are burning.
The VectorCurses+1 tileset strikes the square set and the severed part sails off in an arc!

iceball3

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1594 on: March 20, 2017, 11:27:45 pm »

Oh heavens I never knew how badly I wanted minecart powered fortress ejection seats.
For my amusement -
The Dwarven Bridge: Minecart ramps with rollers.
The Dwarven Drawbridge: a deluge of minecarts that flow out in a single cardinal direction. It fills up a 1 tile sliver of empty space through a crevasse, down to the bottom, with minecarts stacked one on top of the other. Individuals walk along the topmost minecarts to cross. Individuals caught below it are crushed by the weight of 50+ minecarts. The bridge is retracted by a chute down below opening up and rollers shoving each row of carts into it as they fall upon it.

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1595 on: March 20, 2017, 11:48:58 pm »

If there are ways off the edge of the map in the caverns, can squads depart using these?
(Instead of say, wandering through the syndrome inducing blood falling from the sky and around the husks hanging out near the front door)
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DG

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1596 on: March 20, 2017, 11:56:01 pm »

Your expedition was eaten by a grue Elkbirds. Mission failed.
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Inarius

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1597 on: March 21, 2017, 05:33:43 am »

@Putnam@iceball3@thvaz

That was the sense of my question. Considering that the general travel will be short, 18 days is the maximum travel time, so a fortress not in a pole but around the center of the map will have at max 9 days long travel. This is very short in Fortress mode and if you are going on smaller map it will be just a blink, at most. On the largest world even the farthest destination from on pole to the opposite will take 2 or 3 months to go and come back (large world = twice a medium).
 I understand it can be seen as an issue by Toady.
The first part of iceball3 question is near mine, actually and I support it : will mission lasts more than just the travel and will it "takes" time to do things while on site. That's all !
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Urist McVoyager

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1598 on: March 21, 2017, 08:04:26 am »

Are aimed missile attacks a future plan?
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1599 on: March 21, 2017, 08:14:03 am »

Are aimed missile attacks a future plan?
How do you mean?
You aim missile attacks right now, don't you?

Or do you mean, aim for a specific body part, like melee combat?

(In which case the answer will be, yeah, one day, no schedule. The next release is focussed on artifacts, not the combat system).
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 08:16:03 am by Shonai_Dweller »
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1600 on: March 21, 2017, 08:18:06 am »

Quote
Will squads or individuals pursue personal interests en route to their destination,
Stopping off at taverns was mentioned, so yeah.
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Mr S

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1601 on: March 21, 2017, 09:15:09 am »

Are aimed missile attacks a future plan?
How do you mean?
You aim missile attacks right now, don't you?

Or do you mean, aim for a specific body part, like melee combat?

(In which case the answer will be, yeah, one day, no schedule. The next release is focussed on artifacts, not the combat system).

Or, if we are talking about aiming and adjusting the aim of things like ballista, other than at just in cardinal directions, yes. It is planned. It is expected to be along the time line as moving castle parts, drive engines, boats, other complex large things.
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Urist McVoyager

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1602 on: March 21, 2017, 10:00:49 am »

Aiming personal missile throwers like bows and crossbows at specific body parts. A friend of mine is annoyed that we can aim melee attacks like that but we can't do it with arrows and the like.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1603 on: March 21, 2017, 12:42:13 pm »

I just spent a bit of time thinking about this

> Perhaps not specifically in the scope of dwarves, but will there be different reactions for the different circumstances of sending out adventurers between using different races? Such as in "human town" mode you might employ a use of unconventional bandits dictated by your guidance on where to settle & loot.

Though of course there's always the fact that site scenarios might obscure/limit/complicate the actions of what a player might be able to do from a particular site. The little mention of raiding was interesting, since that seems to lean on the fact that not every reaction when you walk into a town is going to be positive, though i might just be reading too much into it.

The new map mode will definitely give the dev goals a lot more basis to work from.

- If a squad is destroyed, what will happen in regard to their stuff ? Will you see adamantine items put somewhere in the economy, or taken by our enemy as a war trophy, or in the next caravan ?

Toady might have a better answer, but from what i know of my current experience of the game it'll probably be determined by who's territory you are passing into (since there is a invisible set of 'borders' of the world you can see in legends mode expanding & interlinking) to being a probability of it being picked up by site population (and returned to the hoard, races keep 'war trophies' in their weapons stockpiles in sites from fallen armies, hence copious amounts of troll meat and troll fur loincloths in reclaimed dwarf sites), passing adventurers or merchants or just left to deteriorate. Least by intelligent civilisation members.

- All those weapons left lying of armies colliding have to settle somewhere, and dropping a valued object in enemy territory to be claimed would be good enough reason in the artifact arc to want it back.

Kobolds for example are largely invisible on the map except for when they are in the border mode but constantly cross into civilised areas and steal objects from cities.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 06:51:54 pm by FantasticDorf »
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peasant cretin

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1604 on: March 21, 2017, 01:15:48 pm »

Aiming personal missile throwers like bows and crossbows at specific body parts. A friend of mine is annoyed that we can aim melee attacks like that but we can't do it with arrows and the like.

Currently, the closest you can get to targeted damage as an archer is controlling "handedness". For example, if your character holds their bow/xbow with their right hand, you'll see a bit more left side damage. That's mostly useful if your character plays more of a suffocation game in trying to target the lungs. Can be used for melee purposes as well when hitting the upper body.

--------------------------------------

Are there plans for other sites (hamlet/retreat) to acquire workshops (in the way world gen fortresses have)?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 01:19:16 pm by peasant cretin »
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