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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 769038 times)

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2220 on: August 02, 2017, 06:09:05 pm »

Thanks for the answers!

Good to hear you can now separate caravans and invasions. Goblin friendly civs (however temporarily) are happy to receive fresh beakdog meat and troll fur coats from their green neighbors - but not every damn season. :)
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Putnam

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2221 on: August 02, 2017, 06:16:12 pm »

Quote from: LorrMaster
When artifacts are given magical effects, will we see them affect a creature's intelligence and personality? For example an animal with the Can_Speak token or a necromancer who suddenly has the urge to raise a family as their main goal?

Hard to say what's going in on the first pass.  Critters will be more mutable as more effects go in, and we'd like to have personality effects as well as the ability to endow intelligence or other basic property changes.  The former is especially likely since it is already possible with syndromes (as with alcohol).

Both are already possible--the former with alcohol, as mentioned, the latter with [CE_ADD_TAG:CAN_LEARN:CAN_SPEAK:START:0]

Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2222 on: August 02, 2017, 06:58:01 pm »

I always forget which tags are supported by ADD_TAG.  Hard to imagine adding CAN_LEARN would actually work as intended.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2223 on: August 03, 2017, 01:52:41 am »

Thanks Toady. Time for some civ slabbing experiments...
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2224 on: August 03, 2017, 06:03:59 am »

Quote
I'm probably missing something, but I'm not sure what the turtling thing is.  I don't see anything at first glance that causes dwarves to behave differently.  Perhaps low population capitals?
In all the worlds I've ever created and read through the histories of, I've never once seen Dwarves attack anyone, ever. Even after centuries at war, they seem to defend continuously. Is that not intended behavior?
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KittyTac

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2225 on: August 03, 2017, 06:19:23 am »



Quote from: KittyTac
Will magical explosions be able to destroy natural tiles?

Hard to say what sort of effects we'll get and where -- oddly, blowing apart a whole region of the map is somewhat easier to handle than the digging-related implications of locally exploding tiles (regarding sieges, fortress integrity, etc.).  As we've said before, we lean toward digging being allowed, but local map modifications of that kind should be toggleable (on a world-gen basis, anyway).


Interesting. So would a region-wide explosion instakill the player if he/she was caught in it, instead of just propelling them away, THEN killing him, because digging on-screen is prohibited in the latter case?
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Random_Dragon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2226 on: August 03, 2017, 12:47:01 pm »

I always forget which tags are supported by ADD_TAG.  Hard to imagine adding CAN_LEARN would actually work as intended.

Far as I know it's limited to what's mentioned on the wiki. I can confirm that FIREIMMUNE doesn't work, which is Fun when you try modding in fire magic. 3:

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Thanks to Shonai_Dweller, Nibblewerfer, FantasticDorf, PatrikLundell, golemgunk, Bumber, Valtam, Egan_BW, Random_Dragon, Japa, therahedwig, lethosor, Knight Otu, Miuramir, and anybody I missed for helping to answer questions this month.  Keep in mind that sometimes multi-part questions are partially cut when some of the questions are answered and not others, so please go back and check around your post if something is missing!

TFW you're mentioned for no real reason because no questions
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Insert_Gnome_Here

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2227 on: August 03, 2017, 06:15:34 pm »



Quote from: KittyTac
Will magical explosions be able to destroy natural tiles?

Hard to say what sort of effects we'll get and where -- oddly, blowing apart a whole region of the map is somewhat easier to handle than the digging-related implications of locally exploding tiles (regarding sieges, fortress integrity, etc.).  As we've said before, we lean toward digging being allowed, but local map modifications of that kind should be toggleable (on a world-gen basis, anyway).


Interesting. So would a region-wide explosion instakill the player if he/she was caught in it, instead of just propelling them away, THEN killing him, because digging on-screen is prohibited in the latter case?
 
 
I'm guessing you'd have to sanitise the region before annihilating it, otherwise there'd be issues with how the game handles death by critical existence failure. 
It'd be a conscious decision by Toady as to what can happen to creatures when a tile is destroyed.
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Quote from: Max™ on December 06, 2015, 04:09:21 am
Also, if you ever figure out why poets/bards/dancers just randomly start butchering people/getting butchered, please don't fix it, I love never knowing when a dance party will turn into a slaughter.

NW_Kohaku

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2228 on: August 03, 2017, 08:19:36 pm »

Quote from: FantasticDorf
Is the situation on how frequently we see animalpeople citizens likely to change by the hill dwarf arc? pushing for a community of tiger men citizens created from retired adventurers/migrants into a self contained extranous community so that we can get semi-occasional migrants from them.

With all the migration changes in that release, it's quite possible.  I don't yet have a good feel for how annoying it is to have a significantly non-dwarven fortress in terms of clothing etc.

It works by having characters of a given race make clothing fitted to themselves. 

This means that if you get, say, duckpeople, then your dwarven clothiers and their dwarven clothes are unsuited to them, but assigning a duckperson to being a duckperson clothier to make duckperson clothes for duckpeople works.  (But not pants, because if Disney has taught us anything, it's that duckpeople don't wear pants.)  The same goes for armor.

It isn't that complicated to handle so long as you have a fairly small number of species living within your fortress, but can obviously get quite annoying if there's a lot of different ones.  Having some sort of layer in the menu for the clothier's workshop to choose a specific race so that a single clothier could be set to making different species' clothing would be ideal.  There's also the issue of the interface, such as the stocks page, only recording total socks, broken down into sock material, rather than explicitly species fit until you go into the detailed view. 
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2229 on: August 04, 2017, 03:38:18 am »

Its moreso annoying if you're making clothing for other creatures than yourselves (A troll for instance with modded raws) which does not have the intelligence to use the workshop so uses the second best fit of polar bear man armor.

I suppose this problem would also extend onto animal armor hence we might not be seeing that for a long while on the development road until the system is ironed out.
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AceSV

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2230 on: August 04, 2017, 05:17:49 am »

Quote
Quote
    What's the story on getting non-dwarves in migrant waves or animal-people visitors?  Seems like animal-people don't show up in player fortresses nearly as much as they do in generated fortresses.

Since we didn't know how non-dwarf citizens would turn out (in terms of clothing production etc.), they are disallowed as general migrants.  I'm still not sure where we're at there.

Wasn't that solved or at least tested with visitors?  I've had forts with nearly 50/50 founders/non-founders after a few years of bards and scientists showing up.  (And also forts that never got any non-founder visitors even though they were built directly next to a foreign city or road.) 

Its moreso annoying if you're making clothing for other creatures than yourselves (A troll for instance with modded raws) which does not have the intelligence to use the workshop so uses the second best fit of polar bear man armor.

I suppose this problem would also extend onto animal armor hence we might not be seeing that for a long while on the development road until the system is ironed out.

For animal armor, since war animals are specifically named, the best thing might be to just queue up armor for each war animal specifically, and once their armor is made, the animal trainer equips them with it.  And technically, if you've going for realism, most medieval armor was tailor made for the individual, animal or human.  The game could even calculate how well someone else's armor fits with the broadness/height/width numbers. 



Also,
Will civs be able to send missionaries or crusades someday, or otherwise make alliances or enemies based on religion or divine allegiances?  Any thoughts on what that would be like?  What say would the player have?
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2231 on: August 04, 2017, 06:44:14 am »

For your bird example, NW Kohaku, there is the small issue that with manager you can't set up an order to keep in stock 10 small leather cloaks for instance - it'll also count the dwarves' cloaks.

Small, as there's enough plant and leather types that one can just give species-only types. However, I think you can't do that with steel armour, however, expect maybe with using "nearby steel breastplate" for condition and then making two forging areas distant from each other (haven't tested).

FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2232 on: August 04, 2017, 03:15:20 pm »

snip

For animal armor, since war animals are specifically named, the best thing might be to just queue up armor for each war animal specifically, and once their armor is made, the animal trainer equips them with it.  And technically, if you've going for realism, most medieval armor was tailor made for the individual, animal or human.  The game could even calculate how well someone else's armor fits with the broadness/height/width numbers.

Out of my slight frustration after i presented that statement, and perhaps it might interest you i made this suggestion thread.


Funny you mentioned that honestly.
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Mala

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2233 on: August 04, 2017, 10:17:07 pm »

I think it's a good idea to move the discussion there, actually.
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waterphage13

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2234 on: August 06, 2017, 10:26:15 am »

It was written a long time ago, but I don't know, is that idea is acceptable:

The last time when it was possible to write Toady One questions, he said he did not know how to realise dwarven political life at two-staged estate system. I think, I found way to realise if:
I part: rules.
Every civilization must have own moral and ethical code. It's list of rules, relating to race, property, manufacturing, and other issues.
Examples:
<profession dwarf> must(not) <type of labor> Miners must not hauling.
<noble> must(not) be <other type of noble> Bookkeeper must not be sheriff.
<noble|profession dwarf> must(not) have <room> (better|worse) <quantity> Mayor must have quarters better meager level.
<noble|profession dwarf> must(not) have <item> (better|worse) <quantity> Woodcutter must have +iron shield+
<magic sentient being> must <die|still alive> Turnskins must still alive.
<creature> must(not) <gelded|being someone's proberty|be slaughtered|be milked> Cows must not be slaughtered.
<rase> guests must not <be patrial> Goblin guests must not be patrials.
Settlements must(not) <trade|stay in trade depots> with <rase> caravans. Settlements must not trade with elven caravans.
I think, must be blacklist for rules for civilizations.
II part: priority and happyness.
Every rule must have repression. I think, for infringement of moral and ethical rule, first of all, should be moral and ethical fine. but the rules should have a different significance and be of different levels.
Moral and ethical fines for normal dwarf:
Counry level: * 0 (
...Town level: * * 0 (
Capital level: * * * 0 (
...................1 2 3 4 5
* - high fine
0 - normal fine
( - low fine;
- no fine
Dwarves may be different too:
Morality Champion fines:
Country level: * * * 0 (
....................1 2 3 4 5
Сonscientious dwarf fines:
Country level: * * 0 (
.....................1 2 3 4 5
Egoistical dwarf fines:
Country level: 0 (
.....................1 2 3 4 5
Absolutely egoist fines:
Country level: (
....................1 2 3 4 5
III part: actions
If dwarf satisfied but see injustice to him, he may talk about his problems in a free time. It makes him little happy.
If dwarves not so happy but injustice is little, they can arrange day or two long meetings, when they say about they problems.
If dwarves unhappy but injustice acceptable (not high), they can strikes month or two weeks. It makes them happy, but if situation is not changed, happyness changes to rage.
If everything is bad, they may raise a rebellion. Dwarves no longer citizens and go kill nobles.

P.S.:
How about to make forum location where dwarves can make main political and economical demands and programms? Like russian Veche or rome/greece forums?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 10:52:03 am by waterphage13 »
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