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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 284855 times)

LordBaal

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2250 on: August 09, 2017, 06:27:18 pm »

I have no wheels and I must roll!
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kingofthehour

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2251 on: August 11, 2017, 12:38:05 pm »

are there any plans to add knife user or misc object user to adventure mode so that you can put points into these skills before starting?
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pikachu17

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2252 on: August 11, 2017, 02:41:25 pm »

are there any plans to add knife user or misc object user to adventure mode so that you can put points into these skills before starting?
Uh... Both of those skills are already in adv mode, kingofthehour.
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Max™

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2253 on: August 12, 2017, 04:42:39 am »

What specifically does the worldgen population cap do? It seems to have a strong relationship with the histfig count unless it is set too low.

Is it related to the entity population values?

Are there any places where the number of non-histfig members of a civ or race can be found?

The dfhack structures have a tree with df > global > world > world_data > sites > inhabitants, and summing all the inhabitants in the sites gives a value which is VERY close to the one from the world_sites_and_pops.txt export, does the exported version include histfigs or something?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2254 on: August 12, 2017, 07:49:12 am »

@Max: I assume you know of df.global.world.entity_populations and have looked at it in your investigation? I would have expected the exported counts to include the histfigs. Have you tried adding them (found in df.global.world.history.figures) to see if it matches up?
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Uzu Bash

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2255 on: August 12, 2017, 08:50:49 am »

In addition to DIFFICULTY ratings, there may ought to be a RELEVANCE rating. This villager must have more local concerns than "glorifying us all".

Is this distance fanciful beast who may or may not be accessible from here threatening your means of survival? Your children? How about your quality of life in general? If no beast is doing that, then they aren't your "troubles".
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Dr.ZCochraine

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2256 on: August 12, 2017, 10:51:28 am »

When the magic update happens:
1. In fortress mode, will random (and normally worthless) artifacts gain some amount of magical ability. Becaus I do notice there is a sh*ton of usless artifacts, gloves of mittens that do not have a pair, or even a ring that was a wast of som precious resources.  It would smply make them less of a wast its that did somthing related to magic.

2. Also in fortress mode. Could you make a pact with a god or som similar being to give you divine metal other then from dungeons. A ritual or exchange sacrifice, maybe build lots som item.

3. As a demigod in adventur mode, could you get some orders/quests/requests from your parent god. With all consivable consequences?

4. Might there be big rituals that you can do in the fortress, ( build some giant rune siècle sor equivalent for the magic of the world)

5. (If 4 is true) could some terrible accident happen with them, causing a dissaster. Set off all the volcanos, rain blood for a bit, maby resurrect all the dead everywhere(zombie apocalypse). Maby explode your fortress, or even teleport it to an alternat dimension, causing dimensional risk storms. At just simply makes your region haunted.

6. Make magical defences for your fort.

7. Could you colonize another dimension if you built a fort on a stable portal and then build on the other side.
 
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 10:56:44 am by Dr.ZCochraine »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2257 on: August 12, 2017, 11:59:21 am »

@Uzu Bash: It's hard to make out what you mean, but it looks like it's a suggestion, in which case it belongs to the suggestion sub forum. If it's actually meant to be a question to Toady the convention is to paint it in (lime) green so he can find it easily when answering.

@DrZCochraine:
We haven't yet passed the artifact arc, so detailed answers about the myth & magic one might be a bit too early to expect answers to.
1. A good question that might get an interesting answer.
2. Hardly in the first M&M arc. It's not an unreasonable development, though.
4. This is in the same vein as dangerous research and is likely to happen, but again, I wouldn't expect if for the first M&M arc.
5. Disasters yes. Instant game over no. Toady (and most others) don't like "You rolled a 1 on a D20. The fortress disintegrated". Catastrophic yes, deadly without preparation yes, those options are game (and already exist in the form of greedy mining). Again, probably not the first arc.
6. Quite reasonable, eventually. I wouldn't expect it in the first M&M arc.
7. Interesting question. Once two directional portals happen (which won't be in the first M&M arc), I don't see why you can't build on the other side. Embarking on the other side has implications for the pre embark screen, so I wouldn't be surprised if it would be near or beyond the 1.0 version (a couple of decades from now), but you never know.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2258 on: August 12, 2017, 03:40:01 pm »

In addition to DIFFICULTY ratings, there may ought to be a RELEVANCE rating. This villager must have more local concerns than "glorifying us all".

Is this distance fanciful beast who may or may not be accessible from here threatening your means of survival? Your children? How about your quality of life in general? If no beast is doing that, then they aren't your "troubles".
How would a relevance tag address this? Dwarf fortress generates the complete history of the world. What's relevant to a villager in one world right now will be different in another world. Or even in the same world one week later. But, yeah, should be in the suggestions forum.
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iceball3

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2259 on: August 12, 2017, 04:16:04 pm »

In addition to DIFFICULTY ratings, there may ought to be a RELEVANCE rating. This villager must have more local concerns than "glorifying us all".

Is this distance fanciful beast who may or may not be accessible from here threatening your means of survival? Your children? How about your quality of life in general? If no beast is doing that, then they aren't your "troubles".
How would a relevance tag address this? Dwarf fortress generates the complete history of the world. What's relevant to a villager in one world right now will be different in another world. Or even in the same world one week later. But, yeah, should be in the suggestions forum.
I think they mean more that individuals will consider the relevance of events based on how related to their personal wellbeing it is, with "wellbeing of the realm" only slightly tied into this for your peasantry and local craftsmen/tradesmen.

That makes me think:
What level of importance, if any do you think would be appropriate for individuals to predicate their reactions based on their recorded of generated histories? For example, will being a tradesmen/slave/leader/orphan have any direct measurable impact, or is the combinatorial complexity of trying to dictate how an experience shapes someone beyond the scope of Dwarf Fortress and it's Adventure mode?

Are individuals identifying with or believing in social stereotypes and biases based on one's profession, background, or appearance out of scope?

I know there's some scratchings of what I mentioned currently in place in the values system, but as it is, the intricacies, troubles, and emotional baggage that most experiences, professions, and positions would presumably have in real life are mostly either absent or impotent, ingame. Whether they're important or not is not my call, nor am I really sure of it personally, either.

Max™

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2260 on: August 13, 2017, 12:53:01 am »

@Max: I assume you know of df.global.world.entity_populations and have looked at it in your investigation? I would have expected the exported counts to include the histfigs. Have you tried adding them (found in df.global.world.history.figures) to see if it matches up?
Yup, the values in entity_populations come up short as it seems to only include the members of the initial race, so non-dorfs in their civs don't show up. Adding the number of histfigs doesn't explain it either sadly.

Code: [Select]
Histfigs:   75681
Dead:       58598
Difference: 17263
Pop Cap:    20000

Race    Export  LuaCount   Difference
Dwarf:   62073   58745     3328
Human:  142140  138876     3264
Elf:     53344   51577     1767
Goblin: 408871  400652     8219

Total:  666428  649850    16578
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Engraved here is a rendition of an image of the Dwarf Fortress learning curve. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. It depicts an obsidian overhang which menaces with spikes of obsidian and tears. Carved on the overhang is an image of Toady One and the players. The players are curled up in a fetal position. Toady One is laughing. The players are burning.
The VectorCurses+1 tileset strikes the square set and the severed part sails off in an arc!

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2261 on: August 13, 2017, 02:00:03 am »

Completely edge case question, but interested for a mod I have. If an [UTTERANCES] race (like kobolds) had a caste that could speak and didn't have [UTTERANCES], and you convinced a member of that caste that you were a genuine kobold using the new fake identities mechanic, would the rest of the civ become non-hostile to you? Or does it not work like that? Would they even give you the chance to explain yourself?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2262 on: August 13, 2017, 02:38:09 am »

I've seen entity_populations entries with two races occasionally. Toady mentioned in his recent answer that the entity populations counts had issues, though.
Another thought on where the missing civilized people may be: various bandit groups and other outcast that might (speculating here) belong to separate entities that are based on the same sites.
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Beag

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2263 on: August 13, 2017, 04:31:39 pm »

1. What sort of divine laws will we see in the first pass of the myth and magic update if any?
2. If someone broke a divine law would the deity in question in fantasy worlds be able to curse them for breaking it?
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Random_Dragon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2264 on: August 13, 2017, 07:44:31 pm »

1. What sort of divine laws will we see in the first pass of the myth and magic update if any?
2. If someone broke a divine law would the deity in question in fantasy worlds be able to curse them for breaking it?


That's almost certainly years away. Next update is the start of artifact stuff, and we'll be lucky to see it within this year.
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