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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 1047031 times)

KittyTac

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2715 on: November 08, 2017, 10:55:14 pm »

Will the myth arc also define gods and other supernatural beings on a world per world basis like magic? That is, what makes a god a god.

I.e. in the case of gods, would we procedurally generate what are their origin, what are their powers, what are their sources of powers, what if at all makes a being able to become a god or stop being a god. And what can, if at all, kill or destroy a god.



I made a suggestion here but would like to hear what Toady is thinking.

To expand a little, it would be interesting if we procedurally defined gods and other supernatural beings. Like what are their origins(One ore more, there may be several sources). Did they arise from a primordial chaos and created the world? Or maybe there was a world and gods rose from aspects of the world (like mountains, rivers, primordial egg fragments or whatever). Perhaps a creator god created sub gods. All different from world to world depending on what is generated. This further help generate what define their sources of power and their domains. Maybe they are fueled by magic, maybe their power is defined by the number of followers or maybe they are powered by physical elements like trees or rivers. Especially if that is their domain, like a god of rivers. Or maybe they are simply powers unto their own.

This, in concert with their personality, then in turn allows you to generate what drives them and what their actions are. Like a god who derives his power from number of followers would do his best to maximize number of followers. Or a god of rivers would maybe look after the health of the rivers in the world.

Furthermore, one could also procedurally generate what forms these gods take and where and what form they interact with the world and their followers. Some gods may not take a form in the physical world and act only trough followers or events, while another may be entirely in the physical form like a giant tree or whatever.

There is much more to be said but I would also point out this also allow one to generate whatever entities can become gods and what actions are required to do so. And also how a god could die, be destroyed, made powerless or stop being a god. If possible at all in that world. Figuring that out would a endgame type of quest and doing lots of scolary work to understand divine beings what makes you able to become one, similar in a way to the secrets of life and death.

Yes. Magic is not going to be consistent between worlds at all. So I do not see why not.
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iceball3

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2716 on: November 09, 2017, 02:30:01 pm »

To what degree do you think other "planes" could manifest as co-incidental soil/sky layers in the planar portal development context? For instance, will the clown car be changed from a geological layer into discrete portals buried at the bottom of the world? Or will they sort of coexist in an unrelated manner?
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Enemy post

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2717 on: November 09, 2017, 04:16:55 pm »

Will AI ever be set to automatically discard burning clothing?
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ZM5

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2718 on: November 09, 2017, 04:35:31 pm »

To what degree do you think other "planes" could manifest as co-incidental soil/sky layers in the planar portal development context? For instance, will the clown car be changed from a geological layer into discrete portals buried at the bottom of the world? Or will they sort of coexist in an unrelated manner?
I think the circus is already implied to be a separate "plane" on its own, however my guess is that its a temporary thing for now and once different planes are added we'll switch through them via some other option, instead of them just being an extension of the z-layers.

Some trivia: if you go down there in adventure mode and talk about the weather, the character will say "Look up at the sky! Are we in the underworld?". Obviously a regular cavern would not have a "sky".

A question regarding the fix for tree-dwarves that was announced; will this apply to flier pathfinding as well? Would make modded flier civs actually playable, as well as preventing flying animal people visitors from being stuck in mid-air.

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2719 on: November 09, 2017, 05:16:28 pm »

Will AI ever be set to automatically discard burning clothing?
The game isn't complete. When additions to self-preservation ai are being worked on this bug will no doubt be addressed (along with rolling on the floor and having the steel-plate clad fortress guards jump on top of burning peasants to smother their flames presumably).
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PlumpHelmetMan

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2720 on: November 09, 2017, 05:30:01 pm »

Man, that release should be a good one. :P
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2721 on: November 09, 2017, 05:37:40 pm »

Man, that release should be a good one. :P
One day they may even think about what side of the wall that they're building they want to be on relative to the incoming horde of screaming terror.
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Jairl

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2722 on: November 10, 2017, 11:42:49 am »

In some sense, "gameplay", whatever that means, must always win.  But it becomes a blurry concept with realism when you think of different moods you could be going for, and we vaguely slant realistic most of the time.

Well I was wrong, which is not that surprising really, but I know that if personal quantum computers where available I'd want the individual grains of sand to be simulated, that would be detailed and awesome.

@JesterHell696: I think you've got the wrong impression of what quantum computers are. They're not insanely powerful versions of the current von Neumann computers, but more akin to array processors or graphics processors, i.e. devices very good at a limited set of tasks (such as rendering the current financial network's encryption almost totally useless as protection against an attack against any selected individual transactions, but not all at once, for instance, assuming the attacker has access to such computers, of course). The analogy isn't quite accurate, as the domain in which quantum computers shine is one where current computers curl up in a ball and cry, rather than just one or two orders of magnitude faster (NP complete problems, in math terminology). A quantum co-processor would e.g. be handy for path finding (but you'd still have to write a special program for the co-processor), as it should be possible to compute the actual cheapest path for dorfs according to the penalties applied in little time. Alas, quantum co-processors for private use are probably a very long way off.

Just my two cents:

Current "binary logical based" computing relies on strong associations between a state either being on or off. We have done analog computing in the past, but run into the same problems that analog transmission creates. Analog transmission, for those of you too young to know what rabbit ears are, is a form of transmitting analog data over a medium. A medium may be air, or it may be copper wire, in either case noise is mixed into the signal which results in white gaussian noise, or static. Discrete Binary transmissions means that the addition of noise to your system has a significantly decreased impact on the output because the signal for a 1 is a stronger signal than the signal for a 0... pretending we're adding noise a 1 with negative noise of 0.2 is STILL 0.8 which is closer to 1, a 0 with positive noise of 0.2 is 0.2 which is still closer to 0.

Basic computer operations now explained, we can look at what quantum field equations are actually all about. They're highly probabilistic and deal with more states than just the voltage. We have similar paradigms currently with Quadrature Amplitude Modulation (QAM) where we are transmitting in a pseudo-analog mechanism while retaining the benefits of well defined states. It is still digital as there are discrete states, but there are more than just two which means that for each second of signal you are able to transmit more data while retaining a low bit error rate and otherwise keeping the data producing a usable end product, all of this on the same channel. Though the current paradigm is to process the data received by the QAM channel individually, this is because of how current computing works in that it is not yet prepared to handle processing all the data in the same form it arrived in.

What you should be picturing is NOT an array of processors, but instead a SINGLE processor that is capable of managing the flow of data into the computer at the same time. This is a paradigm shift, you don't change from "Quantum Field Equations" to "Binary" which gets fed into some "Array of processors" but instead STAY in the same form of QAM, the data is processed while in that form, it isn't split up but instead the interactions (again, probablistic which means you may get a different answer each time you perform the same equation, think of probabilistic in much the same way as a level of noise which places quantum computing in a state of analog computing with additional benefits of having more states than just voltage to vary).

SSE is a similar paradigm shift. SSE isn't the same as having multiple processors as much as it provides instructions that operate in parallel instead of serial (as most instructions are performed) and does not consume more "cores" performing the instruction but is only related to the core that it is performed on. The underlying idea is not arrays of processors, but that you're now able to work on more data at any given moment without consuming more resources for working on more data. Unlike SSE which only appears like quantum computing in the high level perspective, a quantum computer would not need highly specialized ALUs to process additional data, it would process it all at the same time because that is what quantum computing is all about... processing every bit of data you can push into the system across numerous states at the same exact time without the use of additional hardware and doing so for every instruction.

Sure, you could use classical binary approaches with Quantum Computing... but at that point you're not actually getting any benefits over traditional computing.



Of course, too many kids don't recognize that the reason we're using silicon and binary logic based computing isn't because it's the best the world has to offer. Silicon is crap compared to things like Exotic Metals like Indium Gallium Arsenide, but silicon is CHEAP. It's all about what is the cheapest thing you can place on the market, even lithography is all about making the processor cheaper, not actually BETTER! Why would we ever see Quantum Computing in homes when VR Goggles market better than the plethora of Mind Machine interfaces that research has been working on, that actually WORK... and that are superior in every way except the user needs to train the system and it isn't as easy as the universal Matrix Jack "plug in and go". Consumers don't care about what is best, they care about what has more Hype behind it, and how cheap it is... that's why people buy cheap gaming laptops with horrible thermals... let alone those who buy a gaming desktop instead of building it themselves :S
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2723 on: November 12, 2017, 10:23:12 am »

Will the (justly or not) suspected artifact thieves have a way of clearing their name? Or is the suspicion something they'll just have to deal with on their job?

KittyTac

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2724 on: November 12, 2017, 10:35:57 am »

Looks like this update will be preparation for most future arcs, including Myth & Magic, Laws & Customs, and Economy, is this true?

When boats come around, will there be artifact ships?
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 10:37:53 am by KittyTac »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2725 on: November 12, 2017, 11:34:35 am »

Looks like this update will be preparation for most future arcs, including Myth & Magic, Laws & Customs, and Economy, is this true?

When boats come around, will there be artifact ships?
Since most everything ties into most everything else, most development provides additional building blocks towards future functionality. I don't see much intersection between artifacts and economy, unless artifacts can be traded as economic goods. The artifact demand/gifting is going to be hobbled by Laws & Customs diplomacy being absent, but is presumably somewhat prepared to be possible to enter that future development with limited effort. Additional artifact generation and the activities to chase them provides some limited ground works for magical artifacts, it can be assumed, but are probably more a goal in itself to bring life to the world.

The potential introduction of artifact ships would likely require the introduction of a new class of artifacts, as they're likely to be compound objects (like workshops and [current] traps, but probably made out of more parts than those). It could, however, be an offshoot of artifact multi piece instruments, should those be introduced. I suspect ships (and instruments and workshops) imbued with magic (in suitable worlds) are closer targets, though.
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KittenHugz

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2726 on: November 12, 2017, 11:39:16 pm »

Regarding traveling military peoples; when the economy is implemented, would I be able to request mercenaries from other civilizations?  Like requesting archers from the elves to bolster my crossbowdorfs and then paying for it through the normal trade caravan or some other means.  Conversely, could your parent civilization levy your soldiers to help in other wars or to defend other forts?

On another note, I would like catapults to be more interesting.  Specifically I want to load them with spiked balls.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2727 on: November 13, 2017, 01:09:15 am »

Regarding traveling military peoples; when the economy is implemented, would I be able to request mercenaries from other civilizations?  Like requesting archers from the elves to bolster my crossbowdorfs and then paying for it through the normal trade caravan or some other means.  Conversely, could your parent civilization levy your soldiers to help in other wars or to defend other forts?

On another note, I would like catapults to be more interesting.  Specifically I want to load them with spiked balls.

Unless you put your suggestion in the suggestions forum, it'll be lost to time in this thread. Economy is at least 10 years away. Suggestions here will probably be forgotten by next week. :)
Also, beyond the dev notes and dftalk (which you should read for insights on raising armies and such) I doubt anything concrete has been decided regarding the economy. It's so far away!
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StagnantSoul

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2728 on: November 13, 2017, 01:42:31 am »

Will we see the return of the alchemist and their soap making antics?
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KittyTac

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2729 on: November 13, 2017, 02:17:10 am »

Will we see the return of the alchemist and their soap making antics?

Probably not only soap... Potions, for example. But not in this release.
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