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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 750406 times)

FantasticDorf

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2760 on: November 15, 2017, 09:57:36 am »

You will have to get a screenshot of this yourself but the whole (what happens after you're dead afterlife wise & mechanics) were already partially spoken about in Toady's mythgeneration talks, ontop of the sliders determining things like whether it is actually possible to permanently die in a perfect world versus a very much horrifying world (basically BeserkŠ) with rampant things killing you & being killed.

Also your question isn't exactly concise to start with, and your methods you suggest of remaining after you've died could possibly be held inside a suggestion thread to be filled out with detail on how it affects the game rather than remain assumptive in trying to cover too many points of the same topic here, as i don't think Toady will be able to reply in entirety to all presented in lime green at once. Though i've gone to the courtesy to snip out the relevant bits presentably.

Quote from: volilol's questions
With the current split between body and soul: when will a being count as dead? (In both respects? utterly destroyed? little unclear here, though previously you went over things like being able to operate one without the other by different means or said relationship being unimportant)

Will beings whose souls reside in items die when the item is destroyed?

I think Toady's addressed destroying artifacts to have some sort of effect and remarked that would actually require the ability to destroy them through currently unobtainable means so is off the table short term until the magic arc, though you might have to do a bit of digging to verify that, ill quote it if i find it later.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 10:00:19 am by FantasticDorf »
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2761 on: November 16, 2017, 12:04:38 am »

On the off chance that there's no release this month...

Goblins accepted a human civ beast hunter identity? Does that mean they're no longer automatic Kill_Neutral:required? Or are beast hunters welcome everywhere (like bards) so get a free pass to wander around the pits?

Oh wait, perhaps it was "I'm a human beast hunter from [goblin_civ_name]". That would work...
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 12:07:10 am by Shonai_Dweller »
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Urlance Woolsbane

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2762 on: November 16, 2017, 12:27:25 am »

Oh wait, perhaps it was "I'm a human beast hunter from [goblin_civ_name]". That would work...
That would make sense, although Toady's phrasing was a tad confusing. I'm not sure why Buddy A would need to mention his species, since that can't yet be disguised, if I remember rightly.  And surely the whole "I'm from civ x" shtick only works on those who don't belong to civ x? Mind you, it does give rise to a rather funny mental image:

Elf: "Someone's skulking around... That's incredibly suspicious!"
Goblin agent: "Hello fellow long-ears! Is good day in tree-loving sylvan paradise we have here, no? What say we swing from branch and eat roast leg of dwarf?"
Elf: "Uh... Maybe another time... [Walks away muttering something about the acacia district.]"
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2763 on: November 16, 2017, 01:25:18 am »

Ah well, will probably find out before the next fotf reply anyhow.  :)
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Miuramir

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2764 on: November 16, 2017, 04:18:46 pm »

...when will a being count as dead?

In the current setting, under most circumstances, when their original body dies.  Under certain circumstances it may be possible to "die" again if the soul is given a new body; to what degree these are bugs, "happy accidents" to be Bob Ross about it, or WAI is not always clear. 

In the future, this will be determined by what the world settings and myth generator have created.  In some worlds souls may be immutable things, that occasionally inhabit mortal forms.  In others, souls may be immediately yanked to an appropriate afterlife, and ghosts are merely false shadows.  In yet others, it might be something more Egyptian; with the Jb (heart), Sheut (shadow), Ren (name), Ba (personality), Ka (vital spark), Khat (physical body), and Akh (magical drive) all being distinct parts of what makes a "person", with different roles to perform as you go through the stages of life and death.  For instance, ordinary (first) death was when the Khat (physical body) failed, and the Ka (vital spark) left it; with the proper rituals, the Ba (personality) could also be freed from the Khat, to be rejoined with the Ka so it could live on (in a way) as the Akh. 

This is but one very simple example of a historical treatment that would be one of perhaps billions of different variants of how cosmology works that the myth generator could come up with. 

Quote
Will beings whose souls reside in items die when the item is destroyed?[/color]

This is entirely dependent on what sort of myth has been generated for that world.  Souls might be immutable things more-or-less free to choose destinations; they might be fragile things easily broken and dispersed (or eaten!), they might be durable but subject to moral forces beyond their strength... procedurally generated mythologies will allow all sorts of awesome things that we've not even thought of yet.  Think about all the ways to handle such things that have existed in any real-world or fictional mythology, and then remember that's only a tiny spec in the corner of the possibility space.  (Yes, this is going to result in some really amusing "Is this a bug or just the way the universe works?!?" threads.) 
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Dr. Melon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2765 on: November 17, 2017, 07:38:59 am »

Will myth/magic extend to medical care? For example, potions, rituals, etc? And will the dwarves perform such cures even if they may not actually be effective (more myth than fact)? Could they even perform dangerous treatments that later get learned away by scholars?
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 07:50:17 am by Dr. Melon »
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KittyTac

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2766 on: November 17, 2017, 08:06:49 am »

Will myth/magic extend to medical care? For example, potions, rituals, etc? And will the dwarves perform such cures even if they may not actually be effective (more myth than fact)? Could they even perform dangerous treatments that later get learned away by scholars?

Most likely depends on world. Why do people think there will be a single magic system?
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KittyTac

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2767 on: November 17, 2017, 08:34:47 am »

Will there be advanced worldgen options for the myth generator? Say, if I need explosion spells AND water evaporating spells in a world?
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Hartsteen

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2768 on: November 17, 2017, 08:51:12 am »

i) Will the equipment and/or environment of temples have any impact on the concept of "holiness" of the sanctum? For example a displayed perfect gem (as artefact) for a deity connected with juwels, tons of displayed gold coins for wealth, a lovely water pond for water, etc.?

ii) Is it planned to add a FAIL-option in crafting? For example a dabbling stoneworker works on a rock mug with the effect of destroying his stone for no result?

iii) Will there be divine knowledge? For example a proficient mathematician gets a vision by Banach, Deity of Norms, which he afterwards can ponder on in his library?
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dragdeler

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2769 on: November 18, 2017, 08:38:23 am »

Will we be able to use false identities to infiltrate goblin civs with our adventurers, or are they allways hostile in practice?

Random_Dragon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2770 on: November 18, 2017, 11:58:54 am »

Will we be able to use false identities to infiltrate goblin civs with our adventurers, or are they allways hostile in practice?

What Toady's said so far implies this ability it seems, but can't know with 100% certainty that it'll actually work out in a way that allows adventurers to infiltrate for very long.

Oh shit, I had a hilarious idea. Can you attempt impersonate creatures that aren't standard civ critters? If so, is it possible to impersonate an intelligent semi-megabeast, and what are the consequences of attempting it?
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2771 on: November 18, 2017, 04:36:57 pm »

Will we be able to use false identities to infiltrate goblin civs with our adventurers, or are they allways hostile in practice?

What Toady's said so far implies this ability it seems, but can't know with 100% certainty that it'll actually work out in a way that allows adventurers to infiltrate for very long.

Oh shit, I had a hilarious idea. Can you attempt impersonate creatures that aren't standard civ critters? If so, is it possible to impersonate an intelligent semi-megabeast, and what are the consequences of attempting it?
Pretty sure you can't impersonate other races in the upcoming version, only claim you're from another civ.
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PlumpHelmetMan

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2772 on: November 18, 2017, 08:11:59 pm »

Impersonating other races would probably require some sort of illusion magic if you expect anyone to buy it (except in some minor cases, an elf for instance might be able to pass for human just by wearing a hood) and thus IMO is unlikely to be implemented until after the first mythgen release.
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Random_Dragon

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2773 on: November 18, 2017, 09:04:52 pm »

Ah right, doh. Though I wonder how the code is gonna handle "elf pretending to be human" and thus I wonder if extreme bullshittery could allow convincing a dumb-enough megabeast...

Is it really confirmed that you can even attempt to make a different-species ID, which "elf as human" would require? Because that would require some major niche hardcoding to allow for only such specific instances to be allowed, without allowing the ability to attempt less believable IDs.
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KittyTac

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2774 on: November 18, 2017, 09:23:48 pm »

Ah right, doh. Though I wonder how the code is gonna handle "elf pretending to be human" and thus I wonder if extreme bullshittery could allow convincing a dumb-enough megabeast...

Is it really confirmed that you can even attempt to make a different-species ID, which "elf as human" would require? Because that would require some major niche hardcoding to allow for only such specific instances to be allowed, without allowing the ability to attempt less believable IDs.

Or a raw tag: [CAN_PASS_AS:<creature>]
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