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[gchristopher]

That's another neat challenge idea.

As a succession fort, letting them die seems like a hard one to avoid. It's a fun puzzle challenge, but less so when you inherit Stone Crafting, Armor Smithing, Weapon Smithing, and Bookbinding on a fortress that can't adequately feed/booze and clothe itself. Those four unnecessary picks pretty much required deaths to get through year 2. Assigning Plant Gathering was a mistake, too. Engraver was also one that should have been a year 4-5 luxury pick.

I learned that grower/brewer is pretty bad to combine on just one dwarf. It makes a nasty farming bottleneck between the need for food/booze production and plants for the clothing industry.

Labors I was surprised to find absolutely essential were Plant Processing and Furnace Operating. Metalcrafting was another weird half luxury/half essential because it got magma forges moved up to the main fortress and dramatically increased everyone's productivity. The glassmaker was as absurdly (OP?) useful as always, so that was an easy choice.

So it was really interesting. The next player (c'mon, someone take it!) might have totally different conclusions, so I'm happy to have them murder their way to their own personal vision of a fort. It's like taking the usual community game spirit and extending it to actually physically killing dorfs who represent past decisions. I guess I'm never invested in the whole "named dorf" thing anyway, so it means less to me?

Hopefully people will keep playing. Overseers a few more years down the line should be less under the gun to kill dwarves to fill out essential labors.

[jecowa]

Bookbinding seems like an unusual choice for something like this, but with a fort full of vampires, you won't need all the jobs that are required for food and drink.

[Glass]

Bookbinding seems like an unusual choice for something like this, but with a fort full of vampires, you won't need all the jobs that are required for food and drink.

But are the vampires sufficiently lazy?

For that matter, where would they have come from? Outer space? The experimentations of an insane human practitioner of mad !!SCIENCE!!? The raws and other base values of reality?
You really must be more specific.

[gchristopher]

Meh. The whole "make everyone a vampire" or "bring in a necro book with an adventurer" in community games has been done to death. (snrk)

[Spriggans]

Sanctume's right about this game being a puzzle game you have to solve at the beginning.

I happened to think of this kind of challenge, and I wanted to share it with you, since I thought that was fun.

Solving the founding seven's skills was what was hard. Choosing skills was obvious at first, but you had to think on a rather long term, so it became more tricky

My thoughts were as such :
We have 14 picks
- Some skills are obvious : Miner, Carpenter, Mason, brewer, cook, grower. (6 picks)
With these, you kinda can do a lot. You may survive easily.

- But you still might want to do other stuff. So I added Mechanics and Architect (makes bridges, and workshops)  (8 picks)

- Then ! The strange moods will happen, I need craftdwarf workshops ! Rock-crafter then, since I can make rock pots and things for the traders with it (9picks)

- Ok ok, 5 picks left, let's think long term ! Might as well assign Weapons/Armor, so an army can be built if needed. (11 picks, 3 left).

- At this point, the last picks depend on your play style I guess.
Clothmaker because it is used to make ropes and bags.
Weaver because it goes with clothmaker.
Engraver because I like to make things pretty.

- My plan was to assign furnace op. as first yearly skill

[jecowa]

Some skills are obvious : Miner, Carpenter, Mason, brewer, cook, grower. (6 picks)

I heard cooks aren't very important and dwarves are just fine eating raw ingredients. I think plant gathering might be better.

Ok ok, 5 picks left, let's think long term ! Might as well assign Weapons/Armor, so an army can be built if needed. (11 picks, 3 left).

This sounds like it might not be challenging enough with all these extra labors at the start of the fort. Maybe each dwarf should only start out with 1 skill. And get rid of the killing dwarves loophole. If a dwarf dies those skills should be lost, or at least make it where the same labors have to be transferred instead of getting to pick whatever. Also, since mining and construction/deconstruction are dangerous, maybe they should also be able to be freely added and removed from any dwarves like the hauler and nursing jobs.

[Fleeting Frames]

They can, though some things are neat one way or another and inedible raw (eggs, sweet pod syrup). Ultimately, the only ones you really need are some source of food, drink and defence (and perhaps it might be theoretically possible to get away with no assigned labours thanks to caravans and using burrows/forbidding to make alcohol last longer/cut it with water + constructing/deconstructing for entrances).

So it kinda falls on what you want to do. Haven't exactly made my own list or considered the merits of things like woodcutter on more forested areas

[gchristopher]

And woodcutter for logs for beds. That should probably be on the mandatory list.

Then ! The strange moods will happen, I need craftdwarf workshops ! Rock-crafter then, since I can make rock pots and things for the traders with it

Ooh, you do need some way to construct a workshop for moods. That's a good point, and we did get a woodcrafter mooded dwarf. Using stone for crafts seems crazy, though. Rock is in relatively short supply and every extra tile you mine is a permanent FPS-draining pathable tile. Stonecrafts are low value and non-renewable, too. Maybe pick woodcraft first, because after beds and any water wheels/axles, we easily ended up with tons of extra logs. (And an entire surplus population to haul them in quickly.)

Clothmaker because it is used to make ropes and bags.
Weaver because it goes with clothmaker.

Plant Processor/Weaver/Clothesmaker eats up three picks, but are pretty much unavoidable if you want to keep dwarves from walking around in rotting clothes. At least for year 2, having all three is mandatory.

This sounds like it might not be challenging enough with all these extra labors at the start of the fort. Maybe each dwarf should only start out with 1 skill. And get rid of the killing dwarves loophole.

I think for a personal 1-player version that might be doable. I'd have to think about the list in that case. For a community fortress, the first few years wouldn't be worth the headache under those rules.

[Fleeting Frames]

You can mostly skip* on Plant Processor/Weaver/Clothesmaking if you pick Leatherworker. Then can either import leather from caravans, or pick butcher and tanner and use poultsplosions. Possibly pick Bonecarver too for craftsdwarf building so you can make bone armor (for civilian uniforms) and bolts for wildlife military training, though in that case you need a way to make nest boxes.

*You still need thread and cloth in case of injuries, but those can be imported from caravan in relevant amounts, much like gypsum plaster.

PS: Wood is usually taken to be in shorter supply than rock, though? Albeit it can take extra messing for hauling at reasonable speed.

[Spriggans]

@gchristopher :
Did you just say you'd rather build out of wood ? And leave the stone on the ground ??
Go back with the elves, your friends ! That's where you belong !
They have water for you ! And don't forget to cut your beard !


For real now... Good point here. Wood is now limitless with the new big trees. I keep using stone-crafter out of habit. But I guess wood crafting works well.