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Author Topic: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0  (Read 1316695 times)

Rolepgeek

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #1455 on: July 26, 2016, 11:07:55 pm »

Rolepgeek I would say those roles have reversed and are the product of necessity, not philosophy

Consider how progressive leftism now eschews free speech in favour of safe speech, curtails academic freedom in favour of academic uniformity and intellectual insulation, whilst traditional rightism has eschewed conservatism in lieu of provocation, moral values in favour of pretenderism, nationalism in lieu of globalism etc.

I imagine once new-rightism takes supremacy, the roles will switch round again
It's similar to how for example the left and right were opposed to mass surveillance, but under Obama the left supported Obama's decision to label Edward as traitor, and the right rushed to defend civil liberties from Obama. Didn't really make sense to make it a left-right issue cos it was Bush as continued by Obama, but there you go, it certainly was looked at it like one. Cycles, it all goes on in cycles
I think you might be right, but I also think it's about trying to maintain cultural dominance, and really what I think is that the Democrats are worse at it. It's not part of their blood. Plus, really, it's about inter- or intra-group conflict with America as the group. They're winning, and the winners try to cement their hold; their enemy is not outside America, it's "Those blasted Republicans". The terminology used for the opponent is not 'traitor' or 'alien' or focused on people being outsiders or not doing their part for the group. The terminology is 'bigot' and 'misogynist' and 'old white dudes'. They aren't seen as traitors who have turned their backs on the glorious Democratic people. They've always been the enemy. They have always been the foe. That's why Republicans are seen as the party of Evil and the Democrats are seen as the party of Stupid by their respective opponents. One is misguided at best, traitorous at worst. The other is ignorant at best, brutally oppressive at worst.

Within each group, as a separate entity, you're almost certainly right; the left has found a winning strategy, so they try to rally around it and enforce adherence. The right, meanwhile, is flailing for a countermeasure, and the thing it seems they've hit on is, in fact, nationalism. Literally the direct antithesis of what the left is using. Look at the Euro thread, or Trump. They are in a bit of a bad way trying to enforce it, however, as the intra-group dynamics of the right haven't settled out as to what their strategy is. You can see this sort of cycle in nature, too; Aphids will reproduce asexually, preserving their own genetic code as much as possible, when resources are plentiful, but will reproduce sexually in tough times, in a bid to develop survival traits as quickly as possible. Memetics, rather than genetics, is the biggest difference here, I think.

Also Obama is a centrist, in a lot of ways. At least as far as I can tell. I think it's why I like him so much on everything except national security, and I still mostly like him there.

Also, from what I can tell, at least in America, it's less actual restriction, at least at the large scale (though there's quite a few individuals and individual institutions that think they know what's best and what's best is shutting dissenters the fuck up), and more 'get educated'. With education being largely liberal dominated anyway. You have to be extremist about your opinions and not consider the other side. Otherwise they might win! If you concede any point, it gives them credit on every other point, but they're wrong on most of those, but other people might not know that! So you have to oppose even the stuff they might be right about, to make sure nobody else thinks they're right on the stuff they're wrong about.

It's still fucking stupid, mind you.
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mainiac

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #1456 on: July 26, 2016, 11:20:50 pm »

 ::)

The problem with independents is that they want to silence anyone who disagrees with them.  People who are part of a movement are all "sheeple" "closeminded" and "literally hitler".  I dont need to provide any sources, this is totally the way they talk.  You can trust me to fairly categorize their views even though I furiously disagree with them.  They have succeeded in convincing 49.9% of america these words are valid.  This is why they are winning the importance contest, edgelord points.
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Rolepgeek

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #1457 on: July 26, 2016, 11:47:49 pm »

::)

The problem with independents is that they want to silence anyone who disagrees with them.  People who are part of a movement are all "sheeple" "closeminded" and "literally hitler".  I dont need to provide any sources, this is totally the way they talk.  You can trust me to fairly categorize their views even though I furiously disagree with them.  They have succeeded in convincing 49.9% of america these words are valid.  This is why they are winning the importance contest, edgelord points.
?

It's a matter of trends. Not a matter of every single person, mainiac. You can't judge individuals based on statistical data. There's too much noise at the individual level.

And groupthink is a thing. Subconscious, usually, and I'm sure I engage in it as much as everyone else (well, maybe, there's the idea that some people intentionally be contrarian for another type of social status points particularly within that subgroup...). But if you think politics aren't polarized, then I'm not sure where you've been, man. It is. If you think I need a citation, tell me to cite my sources. Don't snark at me. I'm willing to look for the anecdata and statdata if I need to. It just takes time I'd rather spend on doing other things if I can because dealing with this thread tends to be stressful. Not least because of you snarking like this. *COUGHCOUGH* And if you want to call me calling you out on aggressive behavior (often passive, not always) being aggressive right back, there's a. a reason the op mentions you and b. doesn't actually mean I'm wrong.

So please stop. I'll try to have a civil discussion with you. If you don't want to do that, I will simply put you on my blocklist. I'd rather not do that if possible, because I respect you in a lot of ways. Just not when you get...angry? Exasperated? I don't know what emotion it is that causes you to do it. I don't like it and I'm asking you not to do it anyway.
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SalmonGod

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #1458 on: July 27, 2016, 12:28:25 am »

::)

The problem with independents is that they want to silence anyone who disagrees with them.

Mainiac, I don't know if you've noticed, but I made a conscious decision not to post in this thread mainly because of you.  Because I couldn't even neutrally pose a question for thoughts anymore without getting snapped at, which is exactly what triggered the last thread locking down.  I managed to keep it up for almost 60 pages and was trying to ween myself off of paying attention at all to break the urge... but now I can't resist breaking that decision to say - fucking really?  That is all.
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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #1459 on: July 27, 2016, 12:57:53 am »

I'm 100% sure that post was a direct and blatant satire of the way Ibsependents talk about the main parties.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #1460 on: July 27, 2016, 01:00:57 am »

The best satire is when it loops around and ties itself in knots.
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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #1461 on: July 27, 2016, 01:23:28 am »

Rolepgeek I would say those roles have reversed and are the product of necessity, not philosophy

Consider how progressive leftism now eschews free speech in favour of safe speech, curtails academic freedom in favour of academic uniformity and intellectual insulation, whilst traditional rightism has eschewed conservatism in lieu of provocation, moral values in favour of pretenderism, nationalism in lieu of globalism etc.

I imagine once new-rightism takes supremacy, the roles will switch round again
It's similar to how for example the left and right were opposed to mass surveillance, but under Obama the left supported Obama's decision to label Edward as traitor, and the right rushed to defend civil liberties from Obama. Didn't really make sense to make it a left-right issue cos it was Bush as continued by Obama, but there you go, it certainly was looked at it like one. Cycles, it all goes on in cycles

Do take some pains to separate the Democrats from actual Liberals. And remember that the Safe Space fad is absolutely separate from Liberals and Democrats. I swear, it's like you took Liberal Crime Squad to be a documentary....
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BFEL

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #1462 on: July 27, 2016, 02:08:25 am »

So any Berniebros wanna comment on the fact that Sanders sold out to Hilary MONTHS ago and has just been keeping the two million worth of donations he got from supporters during that time in his personal piggybank?
I find it cute how the person you all seemed to anoint as your champion got bought out so fucking blatantly and used his coverage to suck even more money out of you.
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Orange Wizard

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #1463 on: July 27, 2016, 02:12:57 am »

So any Berniebros wanna comment on the fact that Sanders sold out to Hilary MONTHS ago and has just been keeping the two million worth of donations he got from supporters during that time in his personal piggybank?
I find it cute how the person you all seemed to anoint as your champion got bought out so fucking blatantly and used his coverage to suck even more money out of you.
Lol
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NullForceOmega

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #1464 on: July 27, 2016, 02:19:54 am »

So any Berniebros wanna comment on the fact that Sanders sold out to Hilary MONTHS ago and has just been keeping the two million worth of donations he got from supporters during that time in his personal piggybank?
I find it cute how the person you all seemed to anoint as your champion got bought out so fucking blatantly and used his coverage to suck even more money out of you.

You want to rephrase that in a way that isn't blatantly flaming/trolling?
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Egan_BW

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #1465 on: July 27, 2016, 02:21:41 am »

So any Berniebros wanna comment on the fact that Sanders sold out to Hilary MONTHS ago and has just been keeping the two million worth of donations he got from supporters during that time in his personal piggybank?
I find it cute how the person you all seemed to anoint as your champion got bought out so fucking blatantly and used his coverage to suck even more money out of you.
Lol
loL
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BFEL

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #1466 on: July 27, 2016, 02:28:49 am »

So any Berniebros wanna comment on the fact that Sanders sold out to Hilary MONTHS ago and has just been keeping the two million worth of donations he got from supporters during that time in his personal piggybank?
I find it cute how the person you all seemed to anoint as your champion got bought out so fucking blatantly and used his coverage to suck even more money out of you.

You want to rephrase that in a way that isn't blatantly flaming/trolling?
Ok, back in March, Bernie agreed to endorse Hillary and more or less give the fuck up in exchange for getting good speaking spots that would let him make mad dosh, to be carted around on her plane and for charges of fraud against his wife to be dropped.
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Sergarr

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #1467 on: July 27, 2016, 02:37:36 am »

So any Berniebros wanna comment on the fact that Sanders sold out to Hilary MONTHS ago and has just been keeping the two million worth of donations he got from supporters during that time in his personal piggybank?
I find it cute how the person you all seemed to anoint as your champion got bought out so fucking blatantly and used his coverage to suck even more money out of you.

You want to rephrase that in a way that isn't blatantly flaming/trolling?
Ok, back in March, Bernie agreed to endorse Hillary and more or less give the fuck up in exchange for getting good speaking spots that would let him make mad dosh, to be carted around on her plane and for charges of fraud against his wife to be dropped.
Source or it's just, like, your opinion, man.
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NullForceOmega

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #1468 on: July 27, 2016, 02:41:12 am »

That is a very interesting piece of information actually, by any chance does your source have information on the particulars of the deal?
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Orange Wizard

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Re: Ameripol\{RK, mainiac}
« Reply #1469 on: July 27, 2016, 03:34:00 am »

Sadly, it's fictional
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