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Author Topic: Neonivek and Friend's Musings (Bad Ideas Ahoy!)  (Read 43871 times)

Reelya

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Re: Neonivek and Friend's Musings (Bad Ideas Ahoy!)
« Reply #255 on: February 26, 2017, 07:16:11 pm »

I don't think so, this game is meant to be fast to set up and get a group going. If you did that then people woud spend 40 minutes arguing about who's getting what skills even before they know what the job is.

Ohh didn't you know? They want to implement that too!
It's better if people are picking a broad role than minmaxing a bunch of skill levels.

If one person says "I'm the safe cracker" then people just know to pick another role. It's faster and easier. If you let everyone mix skills, everyone will want to mix in some combat and non-combat skills and you'll lack specialists.

Also, another problem is that if people can hand-pick skills you'll get more tendency for players to always pick the same skills, whereas having to pick a whole character card encourages them to try a different card next time. And that means they'll be pushing themselves in terms of roleplaying and lateral thinking. If people can free-form skill selection then 6 of your players might decide to be combat fighters with a side in battle magic, and every time they play they'll be minmaxing based on the skills that worked best the last time, so they'll try and solve every job the same way each time.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 07:26:02 pm by Reelya »
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Neonivek

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Re: Neonivek and Friend's Musings (Bad Ideas Ahoy!)
« Reply #256 on: February 26, 2017, 07:36:12 pm »

What they want to implement is a alternate rule where certain roles fill in a certain slot.

So Magic... even though there are 8 different types of magic characters (likely 9 if we include the alchemist)... will be one slot.
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Neonivek

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Re: Neonivek and Friend's Musings (Bad Ideas Ahoy!)
« Reply #257 on: February 28, 2017, 06:20:40 am »

Speaking of weaknesses

One odd weakness I have with plotlines is also the "Loner gets a baby" plotline where by chance someone who is normally cold, wishy washy, or badly driven suddenly gets a baby and due to it they suddenly are willing to sort of fight for it. Just something that just so fundamentally changes the character almost instantly and how driven they are to protect it, even though it seems against their character to do so.

I don't mean that episode of Samurai Jack where he had to take care of a baby... Because he was still the same Samurai Jack... Nor do I mean the character becomes a sissypants (those are annoying... I mean a BETTER person... not a sacrine monster), well at least MOST of the time.

No I mean the one about a Career woman who gets a baby from her sister or cousin (I cannot remember) who died... and leaves everything behind just to be with her... eventually gaining the strength to seek self-fulfillment (and not through the baby, the baby is just the vehicle that got her to this point).

I don't know why it hits me right in the heart strings...
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Neonivek and Friend's Musings (Bad Ideas Ahoy!)
« Reply #258 on: February 28, 2017, 06:22:49 am »

Isn't it kind of unlikely? If you're a "career *insertgender*" you'd likely not appretiate getting stuck with someone else's baby
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Everyone sucks at everything. Until they don't. Not sucking is a product of time invested.

Neonivek

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Re: Neonivek and Friend's Musings (Bad Ideas Ahoy!)
« Reply #259 on: February 28, 2017, 06:29:20 am »

Isn't it kind of unlikely? If you're a "career *insertgender*" you'd likely not appretiate getting stuck with someone else's baby

She didn't. She immediately sought to get her adopted but when she saw who was going to take her... she couldn't bare to do it.

The movie implies even further that she fell for the baby almost immediately but her career mindset was what made her reject it (after all no reason why she couldn't try again)... And even goes as far as to show how hallow a lot of her aspirations were, at least the way she was seeking it.

For example she has the "perfect career boyfriend" who barely really cares about her and is perfect for her career and work schedule. She is going to get the top position at her work, but the only reason why is because they want to hit an inclusiveness quota and could care less about her qualifications.

Yet the movie doesn't poop on her life choices. In fact her trying to become a completely different person to take care of the baby... completely fails (well sort of, she learned she is good at a few things)... What brings her out of that hole? Ohh right! Her business acumen and marketing smarts. Only this time it is on her own terms.

The baby itself stops mattering at about the 50-75% movie mark.
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Reelya

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Re: Neonivek and Friend's Musings (Bad Ideas Ahoy!)
« Reply #260 on: February 28, 2017, 06:33:56 am »

Well I think the problem with the "plothole" that getting a baby changes their life priorities is that that really happens. "Before kids" and "After kids" people can actually change a lot. Having another life completely dependent on you does tend to change things completely.

Sure, not everyone is going to rise to the challenge, but then again, who said the movie was about "anyone". That type of story is about a person who's lost because they have no life focus, then a kid comes along and provides them that focus. Sure, some people won't actually respond and will just be born jerks, kid or not, but the movie isn't about that person.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 06:38:16 am by Reelya »
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Neonivek and Friend's Musings (Bad Ideas Ahoy!)
« Reply #261 on: February 28, 2017, 06:45:02 am »

It surprised me that a forumnite here said he sought a promotion after having children out of the feeling of responsability. I found it surprising because I'd always thought of children more of a liability in that regard
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There's two kinds of performance reviews: the one you make they don't read, the one they make whilst they sharpen their daggers
Everyone sucks at everything. Until they don't. Not sucking is a product of time invested.

Neonivek

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Re: Neonivek and Friend's Musings (Bad Ideas Ahoy!)
« Reply #262 on: March 01, 2017, 07:09:18 pm »

And I did my mistake again...

I kickstarted Dusk City Outlaws for two reasons

1) My weakness
2) Because someone guilted me into it...

DANG IT!

---

Sucks because I need to get a system to run...

The Dusk City Outlaws certainly has a HUGE split between the player bases in terms of who would want to play it.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 07:17:24 pm by Neonivek »
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Neonivek

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Re: Neonivek and Friend's Musings (Bad Ideas Ahoy!)
« Reply #263 on: March 03, 2017, 09:12:13 pm »

Ok so I am watching "The Jetsons and WWE" (I don't know why it is versus WWE in my head) and I am noticing that there is sort of a uncanny valley effect

I mean this show was made in modern times... But the voices and music are VERY close to the source material... even the general way it handles itself in the Jetson sections at least early on (the WWE part feels more like Scooby Doo)

And yet... everything is SLIGHTLY off. The voices are good but slightly off, the music is good but slightly off, the timing is good but slightly off. It is somehow worse than if it was completely wrong. It is like I KNOW how things should sound, but it just doesn't sound right.

It is extremely distracting.

I never knew the Uncanny Valley worked this way too.

Anyone else experience something like this?

If I can find a video of the thing I am referring to I'll show you.

---

On a side note: I am kind of a bit perplexed by some of the stuff. For example SOME things were just inconsistent even in the show.

For example the movie calls Jetson mildly fat... And to admit even the show would go between him being a bit fat and him being far too lanky.

But I am PRETTY sure in the show the employees of Spaceley Sprockets actually liked Jetson. What the world happened?

Also why do they think Jane Jetson was sassy? I am pretty sure she was Classy.

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ALSO what is with all the Hannah Barberah movies of the old properties and being able to get the male characters often DEAD FREEKEN ON!!!

I mean Fred Flintstone and George Jetson are dead on! (somewhat)

But Wilma (and Betty) is waaaaaay freeken off... and Jane sounds like Velma... I mean wasn't she supposed to be middle age?

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Also they continuously are incredulous or creeped out on being on the surface of the earth...

But to my knowledge the show never implied people never went to the surface. Only that it is highly polluted and for the most part a tourist trap typically reserved for field trips and the like... No one actually lived there so to speak.

Not that it is some alien destination no one goes to.

In fact they have implied they have gone there before and I THINK they have gone there before.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2017, 10:48:18 pm by Neonivek »
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Neonivek

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Re: Neonivek and Friend's Musings (Bad Ideas Ahoy!)
« Reply #264 on: March 19, 2017, 03:00:22 am »

Ok so I watched a TV show where someone was training for a Fencing tournament. The character has shown to have genuine swordskill and does train...

But her trainer, who was told to pretend she was better than she actually was, tells her that she is good but no where close to tournament ready. (Also oddly enough her trainer seems WAAAAY better than the actual tournament contestants... In spite being some schmoe)

So... they do a montage involving MOSTLY conditioning and essentially one lesson of technique... saying that she needs to be ready in two days.

WHY THE HECK did this show create this time crunch? Two days is no time to actually do conditioning (In fact, it is the WORST time to do intense training is right before the tournament). Yet they did a Montage, they could have given ANY amount of days. They could have given it a month or two weeks... or some other period of time.

Time has no real meaning, so why not just have her train for an unspecified long period of time? I mean lets face it they are going to have a Birthday episode anyway and it isn't like they are going to count the number of days that pass... So just say "six months!"

---

Also oddly enough she is kind of bad at fencing. Not in terms of technique because I cannot judge.

But by the fact that she was on the losing end of pretty much all her fights and had to be told how to win... and her opponents were almost always really bad at fencing and basically self-destructed.

Then when facing her "Dangerous rival" she does a really telegraphed version of her technique...

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Then again the entire episode is kind of bad. She was lot allowed in the tournament because her mother before her broke her wrist during one.

And her Grandfather is like "I can't allow you to be hurt!"

Ohh yes... a broken wrist what a travesty.

All the while she acts like this tournament is dangerous INSPITE wearing full protective armor and fighting with weenie swords that couldn't hurt anyone. In fact the way her mother got hurt is because the person she was fencing against accidentally pommel struck her.

---

You know Cartoon shows... you are 100% allowed to make sense. You do not have to dumb down your plots JUST because you can't show REAL drama to kids (like if her mother got seriously injured).

Heck I will always give credit to "Handy Mandy" (or whatever that show is called) a FREEKEN METRIC TON of credit... In that whenever a problem presents itself and Mandy doesn't have the proper tools for it... he outright admits he probably could rig up something, but it wouldn't be safe. So at no point during this show do I have to wonder if Mandy is an incredibly stupid person.

Though to admit I cannot think of many ways to get her Grandfather not on her side without allowing real tragedy, sexism, or character assassination.

Not that the plot really benefited from this aspect... Because the whole drama is extremely paper thin as it was... To the point where she pretty much goes "I really want to be in the tournament" and he relents.

ALSO WHY THE HECK do I have more stuff to say about Children's Shows?

(Actually I know why... because it is stuff that I am so sure only I am interested in... that I put it here instead of the WTF section)
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Reelya

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Re: Neonivek and Friend's Musings (Bad Ideas Ahoy!)
« Reply #265 on: March 19, 2017, 05:40:42 am »

WHY THE HECK did this show create this time crunch? Two days is no time to actually do conditioning (In fact, it is the WORST time to do intense training is right before the tournament). Yet they did a Montage, they could have given ANY amount of days. They could have given it a month or two weeks... or some other period of time.

Probably to create a sense of urgency, and it was probably cheaper on the logistics to show a montage of a two-day training weekend rather than months of training (which would have to have more shots of different types of training and locations).

The people who make this stuff know about how to convey "the passage of time". You might grumble but that is in fact a science not an art. For example in some really early films they'd show people going to their car from an office and show the whole blinking thing, opening doors etc and all. That was before they even discovered the concept of the "cut", which allows you to skip time. But now, the rules of how to convey time passage are a very well established area. These people make this stuff all day for a living. If they didn't do it some other way then that's because they already considered that and decided the other way was too costly or didn't work in the narrative.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 05:44:56 am by Reelya »
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Neonivek

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Re: Neonivek and Friend's Musings (Bad Ideas Ahoy!)
« Reply #266 on: March 19, 2017, 05:44:09 am »

Yeah but when you make it two days... and apparently that was all she needed to succeed...

It just makes it look like she was too lazy. Since apparently all she needed was to get in some cardio.

I mean she wasn't learning technique (Well ok she was... she kind of sucks at Fencing for someone who in the show is meant to be good at fencing... It is kind of odd that someone who is basically a master on the technical skills needs to learn the SUPER BASICS like footwork)

---

Actually I will say this character is probably the worst person to be really good at something I've seen in fiction.

She is the equivalent of a piano savant who needs to learn how to play chopstix.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 05:48:01 am by Neonivek »
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Reelya

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Re: Neonivek and Friend's Musings (Bad Ideas Ahoy!)
« Reply #267 on: March 19, 2017, 05:46:56 am »

Target age range, they can only think two days ahead. Also consider that in a two-day makeover you can explain it away why nobody ever has a change of wardrobe or talks to other people or has anything else going on.

Is this character like school age? If so, then "months" of training would have to explain how that fit in with schooling, and perhaps that wouldn't work with the rest of the plot development.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 05:48:37 am by Reelya »
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Neonivek

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Re: Neonivek and Friend's Musings (Bad Ideas Ahoy!)
« Reply #268 on: March 19, 2017, 05:50:24 am »

Target age range, they can only think two days ahead. Also consider that in a two-day makeover you can explain it away why nobody ever has a change of wardrobe or talks to other people or has anything else going on.

Is this character like school age? If so, then "months" of training would have to explain how that fit in with schooling, and perhaps that wouldn't work with the rest of the plot development.

I get the impression she is meant to be a Teenager, likely 16. Judging by her looks I'd say young adult, but... this is Disney we are talking about. (Though it does help that she is actually like... 60 years old)
--Though she doesn't go to school... Not even highschool and has no tutor... While her sister goes to elementary (In a... fantasy medieval-esk setting)... So she could be a young adult.

As for "Explain away lack of wardrobe or doing anything else"

Man this is a children's cartoon. You know people only have one set of clothes, and that they don't actually do anything when the main character isn't around :P
-I kid, she has two sets of clothes

I mean do you think the Crystal Gems had any real issues after Steven became a Crystal Gem but before he went on missions? No! Because he wasn't involved...

In fact... all their missions go a lot more smoothly when he isn't involved.

In fact... Connie's training seemed to go a lot more roughly the moment Steven was involved...
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 06:03:44 am by Neonivek »
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Azzuro

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Re: Neonivek and Friend's Musings (Bad Ideas Ahoy!)
« Reply #269 on: March 19, 2017, 11:27:22 am »

Ok so I watched a TV show where someone was training for a Fencing tournament. The character has shown to have genuine swordskill and does train...

...

ALSO WHY THE HECK do I have more stuff to say about Children's Shows?

(Actually I know why... because it is stuff that I am so sure only I am interested in... that I put it here instead of the WTF section)

Have you considered not watching shows for children, or adjusting your suspension of disbelief?

Firstly, I can assure you that since it's a show targeted for children, standards of verisimilitude are definitely below adult levels, and as such there's really not much basis to be complaining about it anyway. I would probably expect almost all other children's shows to be the same.

Secondly, you could always adjust your suspension of disbelief. The reason I say this is because as a bright (but dumb) kid, I was like you when I was younger, and thought the precociously mature thing to do was to point out all the myriad ways in which fictional worlds were unrealistic, like how there's no reason for the Weaselys or any other wizards to be poor in Harry Potter. Apart from making me quite insufferable to watch a movie with, I eventually gave up on fiction entirely as a result (while also thinking this made me Very Smart). When I grew older (and also interacted with smarter people), I realised that fiction is exactly that: fictional, and I was overthinking it. They are MEANT to be unrealistic in some ways, as long as it's mostly internally self-consistent w.r.t. basic world rules and such. If you can't maintain an appropriate level of suspension of disbelief, then you likely won't enjoy the great majority of fiction at all (doubly so for children's shows). And that's perfectly fine, it's just that I personally have found reading fiction to be a great stress-reliever, which I was only able to do after adjusting my suspension of disbelief.
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