Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Making LCS combat more realistic?  (Read 90 times)

SlatersQuest

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Making LCS combat more realistic?
« on: July 22, 2018, 12:06:26 am »

Inspired by this thread, I am wondering about ways to make the combat system better or more realistic.

The biggest one for me has been simply the action system - the LCS always goes first in any combat round, which means that LCS fighters have a huge advantage against almost any enemy. I have been thinking about adding an initiative system for some time, now.

Additionally, hit points are stored as a percentage, and damage is (largely) unrelated to the victim's health stat. I'm wondering if this is realistic.

What do other people think?
Logged

Egan_BW

  • Bay Watcher
  • warm and comfy~
    • View Profile
Re: Making LCS combat more realistic?
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2018, 12:15:30 am »

Realism is probably not the thing to aim for, here. Though an initiative system might be good.
Logged
Welcome to the labyrinth! A billion-billion square kilometers of blank, confusing stone passages for you to explore! But don't worry, the normal limits of the human lifetime have been removed, so down here you can just keep wandering until you either find a way out, or decide you'd rather stay.

The Cheshire Cat

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Making LCS combat more realistic?
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2018, 03:08:45 am »

Health does reduce damage taken, but I think with the numbers involved it generally is not a significant reduction, especially not when compared to armour (as I understand it, it can never actually reduce damage lower than the original roll - it can only counter damage bonuses from high accuracy or melee strength).

The tricky thing about LCS combat is that it's very all-or-nothing. You kind of need that guaranteed first round of attacks because if anyone with a gun survives with enough health left to counterattack, the odds are not terrible that they will fatally wound one of your squad members. Attrition really does not favour the player in site actions - they can only ever have 6 people, max, while the supply of heavily armed Conservative reinforcements is endless. So a hit against one of your people is orders of magnitude worse for you than a hit against them is for them.

Ultimately I think that no matter what you change in the combat, you're going to keep running into the issue of the fact that it's completely non-interactive. It's basically just an extended skill check, not really much different than picking a lock, except the consequences for failure are a lot more severe.

If you want to involve the Health stat a bit more, you could maybe have some kind of "Death's Door" mechanic similar to Darkest Dungeon, where when you drop to 0 HP instead of just dying instantly, you'd make Health checks each time you take damage, where passing the check means you still manage to hold on. This might make people with really high Health too hard to kill, though.
Logged
LCS Graphical Remake:

https://the-cheshire-cat.itch.io/lcs
Current progress: 80%?

Taberone

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Making LCS combat more realistic?
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2018, 10:56:58 am »

if anyone with a gun survives with enough health left to counterattack, the odds are not terrible that they will fatally wound one of your squad members.

Being "badly wounded" prevents anyone from attacking, though. With the damage rolls in vanilla LCS, people usually either get instakilled or instantly brought to Badly Wounded/Near Death from a single bullet.

If you want to involve the Health stat a bit more, you could maybe have some kind of "Death's Door" mechanic similar to Darkest Dungeon, where when you drop to 0 HP instead of just dying instantly, you'd make Health checks each time you take damage, where passing the check means you still manage to hold on. This might make people with really high Health too hard to kill, though.

That could also work.
Logged

cdru

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Making LCS combat more realistic?
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2018, 06:40:28 pm »



Being "badly wounded" prevents anyone from attacking, though. With the damage rolls in vanilla LCS, people usually either get instakilled or instantly brought to Badly Wounded/Near Death from a single bullet.

[/quote]

Actually, being badly wounded still allows making attacks. It's just that there is a chance to not do anything
Logged

cdru

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Making LCS combat more realistic?
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2018, 06:41:34 pm »

Actually, being badly wounded still allows making attacks. It's just that there is a chance to not do anything
Logged

The Cheshire Cat

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Making LCS combat more realistic?
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2018, 08:58:06 pm »

I was thinking about the "Death's Door" thing more last night and I think it could work if you set it up like this:

When Blood (the internal name for a character's HP value) drops down to 0 or lower from direct damage, you'd make a "shock roll" which would just be a straight Health check, with the difficulty being determined by how much "overkill" damage was done (so being at -50 would be a harder check than being at -10). I'm not sure what actual numbers would make sense, you'd probably have to toy with it to get a good feel for it, but I feel like in a broad sense it should at least be an "Average" difficulty check (as based on the scale at the bottom of http://lcs.wikidot.com/skills). If you pass the check, you get some kind of flavour text about just barely holding on, and the character's Blood gets set back up to 10 - still "Near Death" which renders them incapacitated, but with enough of a buffer that they won't immediately bleed out at the end of the round (unless they've lost like 3 limbs or something crazy).

If they drop to 0 or below due to end of round bleeding damage, they would make a similar check, but the difficulty should be based on how badly they're bleeding rather than how far below 0 they are (since bleeding damage is generally pretty low so there's never going to be a lot of "overkill").

If you wanted to be "hardcore" about it, each time a character passes this check, they could permanently lose one point of Health, representing how it's an injury they're never going to 100% recover from. If they're already at 1 Health, they'll just automatically die regardless of whether they pass the check (although passing at 1 Health is pretty unlikely anyway). This would mean that someone with something crazy like 20 Health wouldn't just be immortal but would be a lot more likely to at least survive the first few times they take fatal damage.
Logged
LCS Graphical Remake:

https://the-cheshire-cat.itch.io/lcs
Current progress: 80%?

Taberone

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Making LCS combat more realistic?
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2018, 10:59:45 pm »

Also, there's one exception to the "LCS Always Goes First" mechanic in combat, and boy is it frustrating.

Go to the White House during an alert (Conservatives Alarmed), and then go to the President of the United States tile. The president won't be in the office, and Secret Service agents will ambush the LCS, getting the initiative in the first round of combat and likely squad-wiping your Liberals before they can even react.

This is the only time that Conservatives go first in combat.
Logged

Egan_BW

  • Bay Watcher
  • warm and comfy~
    • View Profile
Re: Making LCS combat more realistic?
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2018, 11:03:22 pm »

Now I'm thinking remove that, but allow the potus to uniquely always go first in combat, because it's the potus.
Maybe Metal Wolf Chaos has corrupted my mind.
Logged
Welcome to the labyrinth! A billion-billion square kilometers of blank, confusing stone passages for you to explore! But don't worry, the normal limits of the human lifetime have been removed, so down here you can just keep wandering until you either find a way out, or decide you'd rather stay.