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[PopTart]

Hauling enabled on 200+ young ones.

I don't understand... are you saying you have over 200 children? How many adults!? I rarely let a fort go over 150 adults. 20 adults can cover all the jobs.

[Fleeting Frames]

He has 997 dwarfs total in Anvlillocked on 6×6 by last count, but I imagine those are not all the children - just the ones who came of age in last 3 years or so.

[Incantatar]

What i don't get is dfhack's labor manager script looks like it would take Toady almost no work to implement into the game. This would make the game playable in vanilla for people who don't enjoy chaos. Does he intentionally want people to go insane?

[Fleeting Frames]

No. Toady is planning to replace VPL as well with a different labour management system.

[Goatmaan]

Seems I was wrong about turning all hauling jobs on.
You can left click and hold, but it would require doing it by line.(cells not a field)
So I had to right click,(toggle hauling), left click.next.
Still I added all jobs hauling to 223 of the youngest (400+ clicks) in about 10 minutes
Considering it was 2000+ changes (13 per dwarf) still way easier than vanilla!!
821 adults with a low of 14 idlers!!
I made 2 max size ore piles, idlers almost 400, unpause, idlers drop down to sub 20, no fps hit at all.
I've dropped my idlers a lot of times doing stuff, and pathing doesn't give a fps hit cept for 3 cases.
1. Smoothing large areas with a lot of dwarfs.
2. Engraving large areas,  with a lot of dwarfs.
3. A quantum stockpile with a lot of clothes unforbidden.

Thought it was the end with #3. I will NEVER use a qsp after that. Never again.

         Goatmaan

[AlBravo]

I got accidentally locked out of Therapist with an odd bug.  So I have been relying solely on Manipulator and autolabors.  I have been having much more fun by just occasionally tweaking autolabor settings.  Not sure how I would do going back to no DFHack though.  I use the search functions extensively.

[therahedwig]

I have to admit I never really noticed a difference between 'with therapist' and 'without terapist' myself.

For the last mega-project I did (two-world-tile bridge goodness), mastering the minecarts and hauling routes was far more important than optimising the fort-labours. With the new manager system, I imagine the last micromanagement(keeping the production of stone blocks up) would be fixed as well.

dfhack I only use for stonesense. Because I wanna make stonesense pretty :3

Edit: thinking about it, right now the biggest challenge for me is the trade-off between layout and getting your dwarves inside quickly and starting up food production. Do I prioritize getting the efficient layout done first, minding the distances to stockpiles, or do I start by making big-ass stockpile rooms, and how do those fit into the efficient layout, and what about the cistern in difficult water regions, and exploritory mining, and... :p

[Incantatar]

I have to revise myself a bit. With extensive use of macros, a plan, and time investment after every migration wave i don't get insane anymore.
What i do: Make almost all work without quality peasant work. Make a macro script to do it for a dwarf. Rename professions after migration arrival for all dwarves. All male dwarves without usable skill get drafted, all female are peasants. Both get the macroed peasant professions. The masons, farmers, mechanics, smiths, glassmakers, etc. are unique. The only non-quality jobs i make unique are furnace operators, brewers and miners because of the workload.

The other poster is right, the ability to search would save more UI handling time than Therapist or Labor Manager in the long run, if you play less micro. TOADY if you read this implement search, if you can, plssss. It takes so much time scrolling to each dwarf and each entry in the stock.

[StagnantSoul]

I'm going to try and play without Therapist for a few forts, but leave DFHack on for the FPS improvements, which actually allowed me to run a 150 strong fort with 230 animals at 30 FPS, but not use it for anything else. It'll just require some more pausing and a lot more u-tab checking.

[Tryble]

I have a half dozen custom labors set up in therapist.

When a migrant wave turns up, all it takes to process them is check for relevant skills then apply custom labors, and occasionally create a new squad.  It takes perhaps two minutes to apply 1000+ relevant labor changes across a giant migrant wave.  Categorizing the classes of dwarves in this way makes it super easy to mentally handle a 120+ dwarf settlement as well.  I'm also rather fond of the ability to mobilize the nonpeasant class all at once to blitz massive constructions and then re-disable it afterwards, a task that would be a massive waste of realtime without therapist.
After experiencing the joy of two minute realtime migrant handling, I can't ever go back to wasting nearly a half an hour per wave making haphazard changes to incoming dwarves.


And the worst part is, even after all that work, you still can't know for certain who all has what enabled at a glance; you have to either trawl the unit list for dwarves' names (if you go through the extra effort renaming one by one..) and hope you set labors correctly by name, or do some kind of awful census of every dwarf in the fort.


While I can get along without DFHack (though prospector is welcome, I hate the current pre-embark prospecting ingame), for me, no therapist means 'play something else until a release'.

[milo christiansen]

No DFHack means "play something else" for me. I use DFHack manipulator for my labor management, and having DFHack's search plugin is invaluable for cutting tedium.

Not to mention all the other little bits and pieces I can live without, but would rather not have to...

[Incantatar]

And the worst part is, even after all that work, you still can't know for certain who all has what enabled at a glance; you have to either trawl the unit list for dwarves' names (if you go through the extra effort renaming one by one..) and hope you set labors correctly by name, or do some kind of awful census of every dwarf in the fort.

What i forgot to say was, it is mandatory to disable starting professions in the .ini. If you do this and name your custom profession you will know who does what.But yeah real micro management is insanity.

No DFHack means "play something else" for me. I use DFHack manipulator for my labor management, and having DFHack's search plugin is invaluable for cutting tedium.

DFHack has to update so long because people need to actually hack the game. Toady doesn't want us to change the game outside the raws (else he would open it). And you and many others think the game is unplayable otherwise. Pretty sad.   I hope Toady becomes enlightened someday and goes FOSS.

[Arbinire]

I like DFHack for the things it does for the modding community.  Was enjoyable using the DFHack workaround to have adventure mode site claiming and crafting early, or some of the more elaborate buildings you see in like Masterwork.

That said though I do play without DFHack and Therapist each new release a bit.  Therapist definitely makes management much easier, but without it you can have a much more immersive game because you're getting a better look at your dwarves personalities.  Also I personally tend to have the habit with Therapist to just turn on all labors for everyone after a point cause it's easier most of the time to just get jobs done instead of done well

Give adventure mode a go, it's so good now, can't wait for more crafting skills