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Author Topic: I Still Miss Playable Warlocks  (Read 2778 times)

Guthbug

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I Still Miss Playable Warlocks
« on: July 26, 2016, 01:23:33 pm »


Coming back to Masterwork and DF after a long hiatus ... and no more warlocks.

I am sad orc now.

On the bright side, I'm finally giving the succubi a try. They don't have that same evil necro feel, but they're interesting.

Is warlock available in any way at all except through a very ancient version?
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Teneb

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Re: I Still Miss Playable Warlocks
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2016, 01:30:14 pm »

If Meph were to bring back warlocks (and I think he's planning to eventually do it), they'd probably be a bit different. Certain things simply do not work the same way anymore, and there are new bugs to be worked around.
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Monstrous Manual: D&D in DF
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What if “slammed in the ass by dead philosophers” is actually the thing which will progress our culture to the next step?

Guthbug

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Re: I Still Miss Playable Warlocks
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2016, 01:54:16 pm »

Yeah, I can see also the game lore seems to have moved on a bit past them.

That's one of the things I've always liked about Masterwork. The cohesiveness of the world.
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Meph

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Re: I Still Miss Playable Warlocks
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2016, 02:12:04 pm »

I'm still planning on bringing them back, but with the new dfhack they can be done much better. Its just an enormous amount of work. Remember that the last time I did them, people donated over 1000$ so that I can work on that full time for a month. If I'd do the warlocks now, the next friday release will have... nothing. The second one, nothing, the third one nothing, and the fourth one, maybe Warlocks.
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
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Guthbug

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Re: I Still Miss Playable Warlocks
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2016, 02:36:26 pm »


I didn't remember that. :) You weren't doing Patreon when last I was here. Or I don't think you were, anyway.

I don't know that they were ever that popular. Certainly they were overshadowed by the popularity of kobolds and Snake's orcs.

But man, they were fun for that taste of Dungeon Keeper.
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Meph

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Re: I Still Miss Playable Warlocks
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2016, 02:38:10 pm »

I did make a lot of polls. Warlocks were by far the most popular race after Dwarves. Orcs were third, Kobolds were/are fairly unpopular. ^^
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

Guthbug

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Re: I Still Miss Playable Warlocks
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2016, 04:12:55 pm »

What? Really? Huh. I missed out on a lot, I guess.

I've always liked the kobolds but they lag the heck out of my potato laptop once the population gets going.

So where are your efforts being focused now? Who is getting the most Meph love?
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Meph

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Re: I Still Miss Playable Warlocks
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2016, 04:16:42 pm »

Meph is getting the most Meph love.
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

Nelia Hawk

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Re: I Still Miss Playable Warlocks
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2016, 06:02:21 pm »

its not like stuff meph adds for other races doesnt help him making new warlocks later at some point.

i.e. how the succubus summoning and golem forge works might help him later create stuff that creates ghouls or skeletons better.
or maybe the totem upgrade/human building upgrades/carpet/etc interactions/reactions might help creating libraries later.
or how the magic will end up might be influenced with how similar stuff works for the other races too. (succubus magic, runes, kobold poison, orc dreamwalking)
or some of the hermit stuff or orc raiding (grave raiding/book hunting) might be used if you start with 1 necro/warlock and need to gather some apprentices/undead minions first or so.
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Guthbug

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Re: I Still Miss Playable Warlocks
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2016, 04:24:15 pm »

Meph is getting the most Meph love.

Preach it, brother. Even hobbies need some time away time. :)
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SharpKris

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Re: I Still Miss Playable Warlocks
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2016, 09:36:51 pm »

tbh when we start going over warlocks again i'll dive into patreaon. i just don't play any other race :P
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Guthbug

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Re: I Still Miss Playable Warlocks
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2016, 08:32:26 am »

its not like stuff meph adds for other races doesnt help him making new warlocks later at some point.

i.e. how the succubus summoning and golem forge works might help him later create stuff that creates ghouls or skeletons better.
or maybe the totem upgrade/human building upgrades/carpet/etc interactions/reactions might help creating libraries later.
or how the magic will end up might be influenced with how similar stuff works for the other races too. (succubus magic, runes, kobold poison, orc dreamwalking)
or some of the hermit stuff or orc raiding (grave raiding/book hunting) might be used if you start with 1 necro/warlock and need to gather some apprentices/undead minions first or so.

The code for those workshops is fairly straightforward unless you add in dfhack scripts. And yes, having figured out how the orc slot machine, I mean raiding boat, works then you can add a ton of other workshops that do very similar things. That's why there's so many of those stones that evaporate at room temperature and suddenly spawn something.

But there's still a lot of gruntwork to code all of it in.

I have thought for awhile that between Meph and Snake, the full limits of what can be done with the DF engine has been explored. Most everything now is derivative of something else (i.e. the warlock throne being similar to the dwarf expedition shop which is similar to the orc raiding workshop). I felt that gnomes were probably the pinnacle of complexity in the Masterwork universe.

But I've been looking at succubi over the past week and noticed there are some new twists. And glancing at the kobold code I'm seeing some design changes that I don't know how they work yet. So I'm thinking there may be some new Ideamantium ore to be mined. :)
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Teneb

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Re: I Still Miss Playable Warlocks
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2016, 10:48:47 am »

I have thought for awhile that between Meph and Snake, the full limits of what can be done with the DF engine has been explored. Most everything now is derivative of something else (i.e. the warlock throne being similar to the dwarf expedition shop which is similar to the orc raiding workshop). I felt that gnomes were probably the pinnacle of complexity in the Masterwork universe.
Honestly, if you want to see modding taken to its limits, you probably want to check out Putnam's stuff. Not saying that MW isn't complex, but it's nowhere near what it could possibly be if Meph had reasons to go that route.
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Monstrous Manual: D&D in DF
Quote from: Tack
What if “slammed in the ass by dead philosophers” is actually the thing which will progress our culture to the next step?

Meph

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Re: I Still Miss Playable Warlocks
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2016, 11:13:56 am »

Gnomes were done by IndigoFenix.

I'm not that big on complexity. I like user-friendliness. If something is hard to learn, fewer people will play it. That's less feedback, less bug-reports and less of a reason to write it in the first place.
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

Guthbug

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Re: I Still Miss Playable Warlocks
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2016, 12:21:18 pm »

Very true. While some like complexity, they are probably a minority. I know most of my taste in games is in the minority. I like complexity but not stuff that requires a lot of micro-management. I'd say not as much complexity as simply depth.

Putnam is one of the names I recall. What did he do? Deon and Putnam both were big in the community back when I was paying attention ... around 3 years ago.
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