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[GoblinCookie]

I would love to be able to assign guards to my top dorfs.  Vampires have been a menace lately, especially for the guy who processes work orders since he is on his own so often.  At one point I lost one even while a guard must have been present, forcing me to assign three guards to each of his rooms to ensure he wasnt consumed by vampire guards.  (This finally put a stop to the stream of dead administrators) I'd much prefer to just have a small team following him everywhere.  Then I could spare more guards for my best crafters and stuff.

The odds are the vampire will not target a top dorf, since vampires do not target them in particular.  This suggestion has considerable merit in adventure mode (because the player is an assassin often) and when assassins are added into fortress mode.

[Arthropleura]

This suggestion has considerable merit in adventure mode (because the player is an assassin often) and when assassins are added into fortress mode.

I would argue otherwise, Dwarven Fortresses are often plagued by dangerous circumstances that any Dwarf of means would seek to secure himself against. Vampires, werebeasts, GCS, invaders, even the odd berserk dwarf! What noble wouldn't want a personal bodyguard to stand between them and whatever FUN might come their way.

[GoblinCookie]

I would argue otherwise, Dwarven Fortresses are often plagued by dangerous circumstances that any Dwarf of means would seek to secure himself against. Vampires, werebeasts, GCS, invaders, even the odd berserk dwarf! What noble wouldn't want a personal bodyguard to stand between them and whatever FUN might come their way.

If the fortress falls because all the nobles have helped themselves to the fortresses's warriors as bodyguards how safe will they be then?  You do not divide your forces unless you have to but giving people bodyguards is doing just that.  Unless you have people who specifically target important people as opposed to everybody in general then bodyguards do not make much sense.

[Arthropleura]

If the fortress falls because all the nobles have helped themselves to the fortresses's warriors as bodyguards how safe will they be then?  You do not divide your forces unless you have to but giving people bodyguards is doing just that.  Unless you have people who specifically target important people as opposed to everybody in general then bodyguards do not make much sense.

Since when have nobles ever had the Fortress' best interests at heart?

[mirrizin]

If the fortress falls because all the nobles have helped themselves to the fortresses's warriors as bodyguards how safe will they be then?  You do not divide your forces unless you have to but giving people bodyguards is doing just that.  Unless you have people who specifically target important people as opposed to everybody in general then bodyguards do not make much sense.

Since when have nobles ever had the Fortress' best interests at heart?

Since when is it assumed that the player has the Fortress' best interests at heart?

I realize now that I kind of agree with you here on the larger question.

[mirrizin]

Actually. this is ironic.

I'm currently sealed in against an overwhelming siege.

One reason the siege is overwhelming is I lost most of my skilled soldiers to a previous siege.

The reason I lost many troops is because I sent the army out earlier than was ideal.

The reason I sent them our early was...wait for it...

To rescue the baron from a troll who was leading the charge.

[GoblinCookie]

Since when have nobles ever had the Fortress' best interests at heart?

There is no indication to the contrary.  That however it is not the problem, the problem is this. 

Since bodyguards have no function without assassins and providing bodyguards to nobles is basically sacrificing the well being of the fortress for a marginal reduction in the possibility of getting killed just like any random guy.  This means that basically you the player are actually role-playing corruption in giving your nobles bodyguards when there are no assassins after them in particular.  This may be well and good but new players do not necessarily know that there is no purpose giving your nobles bodyguards and will do so. 

In adventure mode bodyguards are very much needed however, I would say that anybody will [KILL_QUEST] should have at least one generated bodyguard following them around.  This is because the player is presently basically an assassin themselves, the only assassin in the world that is.  I think we need to think about how assassins would work and how bodyguards would protect against them since we all agree that they should be in ultimately.

[LordBaal]

IF nobles were marginally useful then bodyguards would be justified even in the absent of assassins.

The only useful nobles right now are the ones that really aren't but you appoint, like the sheriff, the broker, the manager and the bookkeeper.

Now, if having a baron would allow you to get free stuff from the hillocks around you or something like that then they'll prove useful.

[Arthropleura]

There is no indication to the contrary.  That however it is not the problem, the problem is this. 

Since bodyguards have no function without assassins and providing bodyguards to nobles is basically sacrificing the well being of the fortress for a marginal reduction in the possibility of getting killed just like any random guy.  This means that basically you the player are actually role-playing corruption in giving your nobles bodyguards when there are no assassins after them in particular.  This may be well and good but new players do not necessarily know that there is no purpose giving your nobles bodyguards and will do so. 

In adventure mode bodyguards are very much needed however, I would say that anybody will [KILL_QUEST] should have at least one generated bodyguard following them around.  This is because the player is presently basically an assassin themselves, the only assassin in the world that is.  I think we need to think about how assassins would work and how bodyguards would protect against them since we all agree that they should be in ultimately.

The player might not have much choice in the matter, it could, and really should, be a [REQUIRE] for at least high ranking nobles. And I frankly don't see how the ruler of the fortress having personal guards is "corruption".

[pikachu17]

I'd love having my legendary weapon/armorsmiths having bodyguards that follow them around. if they did so, I could be assured that any new soldiers have the best in armor and weapons, meaning that having bodyguards on the weapon/armorsmiths would a great idea with great returns. it would also be nice if bodyguards/soldiers could fight vampires before they completely drain the person. now that I think of it, wouldn't it be cool if vampires with high willpower could avoid draining intelligent creatures, and just drain animals?

[mirrizin]

I honestly don't care if it'd be wise or even prudent to assign bodyguards to certain dwarves. I just think it'd be a neat option. Maybe something as simple as a "follow" command.

And yeah, you could also assign one to your legendary gem cutter, or weaponsmith, or even to your weavers who spend a lot of time wandering through the caverns...

[GoblinCookie]

IF nobles were marginally useful then bodyguards would be justified even in the absent of assassins.

The only useful nobles right now are the ones that really aren't but you appoint, like the sheriff, the broker, the manager and the bookkeeper.

Now, if having a baron would allow you to get free stuff from the hillocks around you or something like that then they'll prove useful.

Proper 'nobles' are a lot like bodyguards would be if we added them in now, they are elements that are added in but without the mechanics to make them actually useful or worth having, until a real political relationship between our fortress and the central government and/or nearby sites is introduced they really are completely redundant. 

The player might not have much choice in the matter, it could, and really should, be a [REQUIRE] for at least high ranking nobles. And I frankly don't see how the ruler of the fortress having personal guards is "corruption".

In a world where nobody ever assassinates nobles then having personal guards is simply corruption since the benefits of a noble having them are entirely personal and completely marginal.  The same soldier would be beneficially employed patrolling the fortress innards in general hunting for vampires or defending the fortress with the others.  You have also got to remember that if we are giving bodyguards to 'important' nobles like barons then all it is going to do is motivate people not to have them in the first place as they presently have no utility as I told LordBaal. 

I honestly don't care if it'd be wise or even prudent to assign bodyguards to certain dwarves. I just think it'd be a neat option. Maybe something as simple as a "follow" command.

And yeah, you could also assign one to your legendary gem cutter, or weaponsmith, or even to your weavers who spend a lot of time wandering through the caverns...

I think that general orders a certain area and engage enemies would be more useful than an order to follow an individual dwarf around when they are in a dangerous/hostile enviroment.  This is because you end up guarding individuals while they are in no danger as well as when they are, while assigning a squad soldiers to patrol a whole area and training the AI of the civilians to run back to the patrols works better. 

[LordBaal]

IF nobles were marginally useful then bodyguards would be justified even in the absent of assassins.

The only useful nobles right now are the ones that really aren't but you appoint, like the sheriff, the broker, the manager and the bookkeeper.

Now, if having a baron would allow you to get free stuff from the hillocks around you or something like that then they'll prove useful.

Proper 'nobles' are a lot like bodyguards would be if we added them in now, they are elements that are added in but without the mechanics to make them actually useful or worth having, until a real political relationship between our fortress and the central government and/or nearby sites is introduced they really are completely redundant.

Hence the IF

[Arthropleura]

In a world where nobody ever assassinates nobles then having personal guards is simply corruption since the benefits of a noble having them are entirely personal and completely marginal.  The same soldier would be beneficially employed patrolling the fortress innards in general hunting for vampires or defending the fortress with the others.  You have also got to remember that if we are giving bodyguards to 'important' nobles like barons then all it is going to do is motivate people not to have them in the first place as they presently have no utility as I told LordBaal. 

The player already has no motivation to host nobles what with the irritating mandates and all, thus the frequent arranging of 'accidents'.

I feel you may be only looking at the idea from a players prospective. If we imagine ourselves as that noble for a moment: We're a VERY important dwarf of course. So obviously we are worth protecting from all the havoc that may occur within a fortress, and it gives us a happy thought, having these burly dwarfs around to make sure a goblin doesn't stab us in the gut. Doesn't seem like a waste of a soldier to the noble does it?

I don't see any reason not to put something in game as it becomes available just because everything related to it isn't ready yet. Players will find uses for bodyguards, and assassins murderers etc. will show up eventually as well. As with everything, it's only a matter of time.

[QuakeIV]

I was going to remark that vampires tend to target people who are alone in a room, which tends to be my busily working administration staff, nobles sitting in their grand halls 24/7, and high end craftsdwarves who are usually furnished with massive multiroom megahalls and who rarely share a room with their families.  Everyone else is either sharing one room with their families, or is at work near other dwarves.  As a result, vampires hit my top level dwarves in my forts much more often than not.

e: misc edits