Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 10 11 [12]

Author Topic: AI Rights  (Read 9941 times)

MaxTheFox

  • Bay Watcher
  • Wacky fox do uncharacteristic thing
    • View Profile
Re: AI Rights
« Reply #165 on: December 03, 2020, 10:14:56 am »

Emotional pain is a trigger to get an animal to behave a certain way. If it occurs with thought psychopath wouldn't exist.  Why would we program a AI to have that?
If we wanted to make an AI that is baically an artificial human. Obviously AIs that are specifically made for specific work and don't have the full capabilities of a human brain are just advanced tools.

But if an AI acts in all respects like a person, why shouldn't it be considered one?
Logged
А если зло победит
Если меня ночью упекут
Не от петли же я умру
А умру я от любви
Не от петли же я умру
А умру я от любви

Naturegirl1999

  • Bay Watcher
  • Thank you TamerVirus for the avatar switcher
    • View Profile
Re: AI Rights
« Reply #166 on: December 03, 2020, 10:17:18 am »

Sponges donít have emotions, yet eventually animals developed neurons and brains which have the capacity for emotions, even though some might not have them. An evolving AI might develop emotions, or it might not. The initial program doesnít determine the future if evolution is allowed to occur
Logged

MaxTheFox

  • Bay Watcher
  • Wacky fox do uncharacteristic thing
    • View Profile
Re: AI Rights
« Reply #167 on: December 03, 2020, 10:22:10 am »

Depend on how limited the evolution is. Like, an automated cargo truck that uses a learning neural net to optimize its operation would still just be a truck.
Logged
А если зло победит
Если меня ночью упекут
Не от петли же я умру
А умру я от любви
Не от петли же я умру
А умру я от любви

Nordlicht

  • Bay Watcher
  • On the Internet, nobody knows you're a cat.
    • View Profile
Re: AI Rights
« Reply #168 on: December 03, 2020, 10:28:46 am »


If we wanted to make an AI that is baically an artificial human. Obviously AIs that are specifically made for specific work and don't have the full capabilities of a human brain are just advanced tools.


We could make humans easier. AIs are workers so we don't have to. I don't think there will be enough pseudo humans to think about general rights for them. But never underestimate human stupidity and narcissism.


But if an AI acts in all respects like a person, why shouldn't it be considered one?

Because my mirror image also isn't considered one. -> See why should we give them feelings at all. An only mimic humans isn't enough.

Quote
Sponges donít have emotions, yet eventually animals developed neurons and brains which have the capacity for emotions, even though some might not have them. An evolving AI might develop emotions, or it might not. The initial program doesnít determine the future if evolution is allowed to occur

If we ever get to that, we have bigger problems than giving them some rights. And if it occurs in biological evolution speed we can discuss this again in 2 million years.
Logged

McTraveller

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: AI Rights
« Reply #169 on: December 03, 2020, 10:31:15 am »

Why would we make artificial humans, when it's easy enough to make "real" ones?

Anyway, I'm still trying to grapple with just what it means for something to have a "right" in the first place. It's a word that is thrown around, and we have emotions with it, but it's hard to understand what it actually means in practice.

I think the practical definition is "If you are considered to have a right to 'something', and someone tries to prevent you from having* that 'something', then that person can be punished and/or the rights-holder may be given some restitution."

So when it comes to AI, what is the point of rights?  What is something to which you would need to guarantee an AI has access? Does an AI even have "wants".


*There has to be a stipulation that the only thing preventing access is refusal, not lack of availability. For instance, if you have a "right to green t-shirts" but all green t-shirts are currently being worn by other people, there is no rights violation if you don't get one. It's only a rights violation if there is a green t-shirt just sitting there, you have enough money to buy it, and someone says "no sorry."  There's a muddy area though, for instance if you have the capacity to make T-shirts, people want t-shirts, but you just simply stop making T-shirts.  This is muddy, because if someone doesn't want to make T-shirts any more, can you force them?  Maybe you avoid rights violations by forcing a sale of the T-shirt-making capacity? That is, you are allowed to quit the game, but you can't take the ball with you.
Logged

Rolan7

  • Bay Watcher
  • [GUE'VESA]
    • View Profile
Re: AI Rights
« Reply #170 on: December 03, 2020, 11:09:07 am »

The creation of artificial humans would bypass many of the staggering difficulties of human childbirth, for one.  One could hope that it'd be the final nail in the coffin of biological essentialism and sexism. 

They might also be free of certain... design issues we suffer from.  Not to assume that they'd be perfect out the gate, but there would at least be hope for improvement.
Logged
They/them
Black lives matter.

MrRoboto75

  • Bay Watcher
  • Belongs in the Trash!
    • View Profile
Re: AI Rights
« Reply #171 on: December 03, 2020, 11:26:39 am »

something something freeborn scum
Logged
I consume
I purchase
I consume again

Naturegirl1999

  • Bay Watcher
  • Thank you TamerVirus for the avatar switcher
    • View Profile
Re: AI Rights
« Reply #172 on: December 03, 2020, 11:43:48 am »

something something freeborn scum
What?
Logged

Nordlicht

  • Bay Watcher
  • On the Internet, nobody knows you're a cat.
    • View Profile
Re: AI Rights
« Reply #173 on: December 03, 2020, 11:47:49 am »

The creation of artificial humans would bypass many of the staggering difficulties of human childbirth, for one.  One could hope that it'd be the final nail in the coffin of biological essentialism and sexism. 

They might also be free of certain... design issues we suffer from.  Not to assume that they'd be perfect out the gate, but there would at least be hope for improvement.

Why would we. If we want end suffering we could simply sterilize ourselves and end all this in a generation. I'm sure there is other life out there, no need for our tools to replace us. A slab that tells future visitors about us would be the same kind of leaving an heritage.

I think think to be human includes our suffering and overcoming it with ethics, not with replacing us. A society that knows no difference and knows no pain can not develop. It would basically the society equivalent of a rich spoiled kid thinking his world view is the only one that counts.
Logged

Rolan7

  • Bay Watcher
  • [GUE'VESA]
    • View Profile
Re: AI Rights
« Reply #174 on: December 03, 2020, 11:57:24 am »

something something freeborn scum
What?
It's a reference to the Mechwarrior universe, where humans on the fringe of known space - to make a long story short - made artificial humans optimized for warfare. It's an interesting counterpoint to the "disposable clone troopers" idea in other canons because these artificial humans rule the clans. "Freeborn" are second class citizens, and only the most exceptional ever rise through the... "meritocracy"... of the clans, which prioritizes combat ability above all else.

It's a very apt criticism of my argument, though maybe not insurmountable.
Logged
They/them
Black lives matter.

MaxTheFox

  • Bay Watcher
  • Wacky fox do uncharacteristic thing
    • View Profile
Re: AI Rights
« Reply #175 on: December 03, 2020, 12:05:07 pm »

But if an AI acts in all respects like a person, why shouldn't it be considered one?

Because my mirror image also isn't considered one. -> See why should we give them feelings at all. An only mimic humans isn't enough.
Faulty argument. Your mirror image can't act independently.

Also I agree with Rolan.

Someone will eventually create an artificial human. And then they should be given rights.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 12:08:29 pm by MaxTheFox »
Logged
А если зло победит
Если меня ночью упекут
Не от петли же я умру
А умру я от любви
Не от петли же я умру
А умру я от любви

Nordlicht

  • Bay Watcher
  • On the Internet, nobody knows you're a cat.
    • View Profile
Re: AI Rights
« Reply #176 on: December 03, 2020, 12:15:57 pm »

I agree it wasn't the best argument.  I wanted to point out that we shouldn't be fooled by looks.

And I think we need laws against people creating them. Sure there are those who do it anyway. But at least it shouldn't be on a large scale.
Logged

Eschar

  • Bay Watcher
  • Not a Pathos alt
    • View Profile
Re: AI Rights
« Reply #177 on: December 04, 2020, 02:33:22 pm »

"Acts" is not "looks."

By the way, we appear to have just brought up the Turing test.
Logged
"Continue struggling, laws of physics be darned."
 - NRDL
"What, are you stupid or something? Every one of the snake's bones is crushed! Its internal organs are torn apart! There is no way you can - (6) You resuscitate the snake."
- Gatleos

iceball3

  • Bay Watcher
  • Miaou~
    • View Profile
    • My DA
Re: AI Rights
« Reply #178 on: December 05, 2020, 06:21:04 pm »

I agree it wasn't the best argument.  I wanted to point out that we shouldn't be fooled by looks.

And I think we need laws against people creating them. Sure there are those who do it anyway. But at least it shouldn't be on a large scale.
It depends on the kind of resources needed to get a rights-bestowed individual. Depending on optimization and the overhead needed, the hardware required could be so trivial that the only way to quench the creation of unmanageable quantities of machine intelligences is to literally limit the power of the hardware available to the consumer.
It's possible that it could already be too late for that.
Logged

Rolan7

  • Bay Watcher
  • [GUE'VESA]
    • View Profile
Re: AI Rights
« Reply #179 on: February 11, 2021, 12:03:46 am »

I agree it wasn't the best argument.  I wanted to point out that we shouldn't be fooled by looks.

And I think we need laws against people creating them. Sure there are those who do it anyway. But at least it shouldn't be on a large scale.
It depends on the kind of resources needed to get a rights-bestowed individual. Depending on optimization and the overhead needed, the hardware required could be so trivial that the only way to quench the creation of unmanageable quantities of machine intelligences is to literally limit the power of the hardware available to the consumer.
It's possible that it could already be too late for that.
That's the bizarre thing, the hardware needed is barely more than a cat or dog.  We give them de facto rights because we recognize the spark of sapience in them. So anything that can act as a dog, and more, must deserve the same rights?
Logged
They/them
Black lives matter.
Pages: 1 ... 10 11 [12]