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[Vilanat]

I don't object, will just find it strange if/when that happens. and they will probably start marrying them long before they become intelligent enough for that.

Fake edit: Yep, long before (Although, it doesn't seem to be in Japan)
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/09/married-to-a-doll-why-one-man-advocates-synthetic-love/279361/

[Starver]

Ramen Rider

During the day he is a humble noodle shop owner. However, when night falls, he fights againt the forces of evil using powers gifted by the FSM!

Already covered by the...

Spoiler: Samurai Pizza Cats (click to show/hide)

[martinuzz]

That explains the pillows....

Wont be long till they start marrying their robots.

If the robot is intelligent and free-willed enough to consent, why object?

There's a whole tv series around the subject. Can recommend, was a fun watch back when they broadcasted it on our public channel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Humans

[alexandertnt]

This robot is becoming more and more complex, and I think you are missing the point I am trying to make (though that may be my fault, the posts were typed in a bit of a rush).

this is what people imagined. Technology is probably advanced enough to do something like this (minus the human AI, and various mechanical-artistic-licences anyway).

But this is what we got. A slab of injection-moulded plastic and some wheels.

The former is overkill to serve a single household. It would be either be very expensive, or very prone to failure. We get the latter instead, it's cheap, simple, reasonably effective etc.

My argument is not against the desirability of your robot, its against its practicality and economic plausibility. The most trivial applications (e.g. ability to move arbitrary objects into arbitrary places) require the most complex (and expensive) hardware (complex actuators and sensors for tasks that take minutes and little effort to complete) whereas the more complex and potentially useful functions (e.g. cooking) are either already mostly-automated (microwave, premade sandwiches/salads), or could probably better be automated by some dedicated machine (e.g. skinning, cutting potatoes probably isn't that hard to automate if that's all it needs to do), or would be more efficiently automated on a larger scale. Simply getting groceries out of pantries and fridges would require much more complex hardware and software than preparing and cooking most of those groceries, which would take more effort from the human.

ITT: Why invent or do anything new ever? Stuff working right now, right?

I give an example of an alternative method of automating something. But its not a robot. So luddite?

Have I not communicate what I mean clearly? Perhaps I didn't TBH. Or is it just that any criticism, even slight, of any form of automation (even if hypothetical) means opposition to technology and progress?

[Frumple]

Again, a bigger pain in that ass than browsing through an Online shopping App or website that already does those things, or going to a physical store and getting the same promotions suggestions from sales persons/cashiers? i don't think so.

Hold up. What kind of grocery stores are you going to that have sales people on the floor or cashiers trying to pump goods? I think I've been approached shopping by an employee trying to push something like... twice in the last five years, if that. And I've generally been the one shopping either for myself or my family for a while now. Most I've ever seen from a cashier on that front is asking about rewards programs of some sort, and that's almost always been less time and trouble than getting rid of a pop-up. A, singular.

I'd definitely say ad wise, an online system is going to lose out hard on the nuisance front if they're working ad revenue at all. If there's  a grocery venue that has that as even a notable thing, never mind a sufficient amount to be a concern, I've never been inside it. And, again, I food shop fairly often, and comparison shop occasionally, too -- I've probably been inside most sizable food selling businesses (and a lot of small ones, too) within a good hundred miles of my home, at some point or another. Maybe even further. Definitely further for less thorough coverage.

[Reelya]

I also find the concept of getting "sales promotions" from the cashiers at the supermarket to be a bizarre concept. That literally never happens. Do you even supermarket? The only time i get approached by a sales pimp is in electronics stores.

The rapid rise of online shopping seems to suggest efficiency is still a big factor and if there was a system that enable your fridge to always be full without any physical intervention on a human side besides clicking on stuff on an App on a weekly basis, that fridge will sell and the stores that fill that fridge will sell

This is what I mean about Jetsons-like thinking. "Full fridge" "weekly basis" already harks back to a previous era. There's literally zero reason to adhere to those standards if we live in a world with advanced robotics and drone-delivered groceries. Restocking weekly implies that your using food that's up to a week old in your meals. Forget worrying about a 20 minute delay on pre-prepared meals if you're not actually cooking with fresh ingredients. The meals you get sent in will be made with fresher ingredients than you can conceivably chow through if everything is prepared by robots at home. And of course, what's going to be the most efficient shape of this home-cooking robot? My guess is that it's going to have to be a human-shaped robot, and thus need all of the same kitchen bits and pieces we already have. This thing is going to have to take the garbage out, defrost freezers, do full cleaning, peel vegetables, keep the sink unclogged, the lot. So at the very least, it's going to take as much space as having a whole person around.

https://tech.slashdot.org/story/16/08/25/1441211/singapore-launches-worlds-first-self-driving-taxi-service?utm_source=feedly1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium=feed
Meanwhile, Signapore has beat Uber to the punch already launching a robot-car taxi service. Though the current crop of robotaxis have a human "wingman" driver and a researcher sitting in the back. One set for a passenger I guess. They hope to go 100% auto by 2018.

[Vilanat]

Hmm, must be just an Israeli thing then. we usually got those on the Alcohol section, Cheese Section and Dairy products sections. often times it really isn't bothering, and sometimes (raerly though) you actually do discover nice new products (They usually involve free tastings of newly launched products). now that i think about it, i actually can't think of a single time i have seen those in States. although, i am almost sure i have in Portugal and Spain, but can't really be sure.

This is what I mean about Jetsons-like thinking. "Full fridge" "weekly basis" already harks back to a previous era. There's literally zero reason to adhere to those standards if we live in a world with advanced robotics and drone-delivered groceries. Restocking weekly implies that your using food that's up to a week old in your meals. Forget worrying about a 20 minute delay on pre-prepared meals if you're not actually cooking with fresh ingredients. The meals you get sent in will be made with fresher ingredients than you can conceivably chow through if everything is prepared by robots at home. And of course, what's going to be the most efficient shape of this home-cooking robot? My guess is that it's going to have to be a human-shaped robot, and thus need all of the same kitchen bits and pieces we already have. This thing is going to have to take the garbage out, defrost freezers, do full cleaning, peel vegetables, keep the sink unclogged, the lot. So at the very least, it's going to take as much space as having a whole person around.

No, i disagree here. as i said, there are certain items you want to always be around regardless of the main meals and i'd rather have a salad freshly cut from a week old vegetables than one an hour after it got cut from a day old vegetable. i'd rather have a month old Steak that got slowly defrosted fresh off the grill than one that was butchered at the same day but get it 20 minutes after it got off the grill. its the handling of the ingredients that makes them rapidly lose quality and keeping them warm is not enough. If i had to get you through a blind tasting of a week's old vegetables and ones that got picked yesterday, i am not entirely convinced you'd know the difference. besides, the likeliness of having a week's old ingredients is higher with people who has less time to shop and thus have to plan a head. with a self delivery, self packing system, the weekly basis is just for confirmation. the ingredients could be sent to you on a daily basis.

And Why does it need to be shaped like a human? let's plan a head for 50 years ahead. why couldn't it be a drone with a sort of clippers?

[Reelya]

A drone with clipper-hands would be terrible at doing literally all the kitchen tasks. Is this some sort of flying drone? In your kitchen?

You're underestimating by far the range of tasks that it needs to do, handles on things, opening jars, storing and checking use-by dates etc. Defrosting freezers, cleaning stoves, sweep and mop floors, unclogging sinks. A few custom tools isn't going to cut it. You need something that has hands and the weight of a body behind it to be able to do the full range of kitchen-related tasks. And everything there is built around the human form. Sure, you could have a custom floor-cleaner bot, and a custom sink-unclogging bot, and all the other non-humanoid bots you want. Or you could keep it simple and make a humanoid robot to do all the things.

Then remember that people could cram shit into the fridge and freezer in untidy ways. This thing can't rely on things being tidy and "on rails" or orderly in there, which would allow our current understanding of machine learning to ID e.g. "Jar of pickles". it needs to e.g. be able to pull everything out of the freezer because something it needs is stuck at the bottom there, and the rest is crammed with bagged up stuff frozen together that needs to be pulled apart, and it needs to deal with other humans who have made a mess of things. And that's assuming it can ID the jar of pickles, get it out of the fridge, open the jar, extract a pickle, cut the pickle, use the pickle in cooking, then clean all the implements it needed to use, and put everything back into the fridge. Basically it would need a human-level intelligence.

[Max™]

They find other jobs. Or they get a job at the restaurant up the road that still uses humans (and has a reliable customer base just because of that)

So you believe this will always be possible?

No, the job market fluctuates, so it might be easy/hard to do.

If they can't find a job in the time since they have been notified they are being made redundant (something like this is usually known ahead of time), then they file for unemployment and continue looking.

Seems like a problem with the whole "if you aren't doing at minimum some sort of menial make-work task you're a bad person and probably going to some sort of awful afterlife punishment" mentality if anything.

Making machines which replace laborers means more people can do things like, be creative, be inquisitive, teach, learn, explore, discuss, and maybe even the idea that life doesn't have to be a punishment might spread... or we can toss each new chunk of obsolete workers into ever more menial tasks until we literally have office buildings with people sitting there pushing buttons which do nothing (because even the job of making the useless buttons is better off automated) for 8 hours a day 5 days a week because, well, you can't do something like let people expect any sort of quality of life improvements without them jumping through hoops first, right?


...though, flying drones with meatslicer attachments could solve the problem of obsolete workers entirely, but I don't think anyone wants to go down that road just yet.

[Skynet]

Making machines which replace laborers means more people can do things like, be creative, be inquisitive, teach, learn, explore, discuss, and maybe even the idea that life doesn't have to be a punishment might spread....

Nah, we will simply build bots that can do things like, be creative, inquisitive, teach, learn, explore, discuss...

I mean, we already are on this road. What gives you the right to say that a job is menial? That it is worthless? Suppose working in a restaurant can't be automated away? Suppose people want the interpersonal skills that only restaurant workers can provide? Then we call that a job that requires creativity/inquisition/teaching/learning/exploring/discussion/etc. and the high watermark of human achievement. And suppose another world where people don't want the interpersonal skills and will accept the robots. Then that same work become meaningless "busywork", probably even punishment. The only difference between the two scenarios...is whether a bot can do that work.

What happens when robots write textbooks, you know, to save students money since the computer-generated textbooks are cheaper than hiring humans? I'd consider writing books to be creative, but...

Darrell West, director for technology innovation at the Brookings Institution, said the educators' project has merit.

"It's good that we're figuring out how to use robots to make our lives easier. There are tasks they can do very well and that free humans for more creative enterprises," he said, alluding to the Associated Press' "Statsmonkey," which writes basic stories based on box scores and play-by-play information.

We'll just keep going up the chain of abstraction, dismissing anything that can be automated away because it'll give us a chance to work on "more creative enterprises"...until we start automating away those "more creative enterprises" too. I mean, it's only a matter of time.

[Max™]

>.>

Did Skynet just respond to my post about kitchen drones with "long pork" suicide recipes?

I've been up for like two days so I'm loopy but it looks like it says Skynet, where's John Connor?

In case you're not a murderous AI bent on eradicating us meatfolk, I'd be content with a situation where people work and do tasks because they enjoy them, I enjoy teaching, I enjoy fixing things, I enjoy taking care of animals, I don't need to be paid for these, but I need to be paid to live, so I have to seek payment for something, though it is unfortunate that reducing an enjoyable task to a necessary chore often reduces the enjoyment, it's better than doing something I really dislike I suppose.

[Skynet]

In case you're not a murderous AI bent on eradicating us meatfolk, I'd be content with a situation where people work and do tasks because they enjoy them, I enjoy teaching, I enjoy fixing things, I enjoy taking care of animals, I don't need to be paid for these, but I need to be paid to live, so I have to seek payment for something, though it is unfortunate that reducing an enjoyable task to a necessary chore often reduces the enjoyment, it's better than doing something I really dislike I suppose.

That makes sense. There's certainly some situations in my life where I'd probably prefer doing work because I enjoy them...and not simply to earn a paycheck. I'm just not so optimistic that automation would be the best way of accomplishing such a lofty goal. Automation that is properly controlled would help out, but uncontrolled automation has the potential to cause disaster.

I've been up for like two days so I'm loopy but it looks like it says Skynet, where's John Connor?

No comment.

[Frumple]

snip

Well... huzzah? Then we can live our lives of luxury consuming all the wonderful marvels the machines make for us. Or maybe even make some ourselves. It's not like having one producer of stuff invalidates all the other producers of similar (/nigh identical) stuff. Maybe makes it suboptimal to purchase from said others (i.e. humans, in this scenario), but it's not like people don't make suboptimal acquisition decisions with nigh-farcically incredible regularity.

Personally, my only concern with a machine being able to make the stuff I do, but better/cheaper, is whether I'll still be able to eat/access that stuff once it takes over. I'm okay having my abilities outmatched by a bot on all levels and my productive capabilities superseded so long as it doesn't mean starving in the streets, bored to death on top of it.

[Max™]

Well yeah, we need automation AND to get people out of the mindset that capitalism is some sort of virtuous ideology which benefits all, because it ain't going to work as it exists now, and though I doubt it will happen it would be nice if it just died quietly and let us move on to a post-capital society, but I am sure it will thrash and fight and cling on long after it should have.

[BorkBorkGoesTheCode]

Well yeah, we need automation AND to get people out of the mindset that capitalism is some sort of virtuous ideology which benefits all, because it ain't going to work as it exists now, and though I doubt it will happen it would be nice if it just died quietly and let us move on to a post-capital society, but I am sure it will thrash and fight and cling on long after it should have.

The form of society is a result of desire as much as need.