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Author Topic: Lord Baal's quick series of suggestions.  (Read 1458 times)

LordBaal

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Lord Baal's quick series of suggestions.
« on: August 26, 2016, 03:11:58 pm »

This is mainly intended to Toady but of course is open to discussion. I have a ton of things on my mind right now and perhaps a lot of things are intended eventually but I'll let them loose here anyway.

On clothes wear and tear: Have clothes endurance tied to the quality and/or materials and real wear. Somethings should wear out pretty quickly (shoes in example) other things like capes should last for many, many decades or even lifetimes or generations.

On clothes raw materials and production: Different sized animals should give more or less leather, hair/wool, and different products should need different amounts of leather/cloth/wool. A dress shouldn't be made from a single rabbit skin, just like an elephant hide shouldn't be all used up in a single pair of shoes.

On night creatures: Further rawify vampire/werewolf proprieties. So in example somebody can have a world filled with wereducks that are weak against birch and bronze and wereturtles that die if touch sand, because why not?

On manager job orders:: Even while it's last update was really great, we still need things like auto-assigning trees to feel (quantity and type), ingredients in food and booze and other minor things. Also it would be nice if the craftmanship level or range on the goods could be defined so we could order the making of 20 at least superior quality cow meat roasts for example. And finally just like the embark profiles, it could be useful if we can export/import job orders from a raw file while in game for sake of easiness.

On paper usage by some nobles: Paper perhaps shouldn't be required for the manager, broker and bookkeeper to work, but some perks should be introduced for them doing so. Faster job orders? More focused workers? I figure a paper with the orders in your desk is harder to forget than a conversation with your boss a few weeks ago.

On usefulness of nobles: Having those really noble (baron, count) positions in your fortress allow you to ask/automatically receive tributes from other settlements around you (if any). In a true feudal way of life having a noble would allow you to get access to resources offsite without need of trading. Weapons, soldiers, food and so on. On the other hand a noble might reclaim certain metals/jewels/materials for himself and those would be used only for whatever they seem fit (personal wealth, coinage, weapons, whatever). This could replace the nonsensical mandates.

On exploration of the surroundings: Being able to send citizens to your surroundings to explore and/or get things.

On constructions: Priorities for constructions, that's it. Just like for designations, so dwarves don't wall themselves inside a 3x3 pillar in example.

On hauling tools: Dwarves can carry more than one small item (seeds, crafts) at the same time if they own and carry a bag or backpack. This could help specially in the case of seeds where the dwarf won't take the seed bag from a barrel but instead will pick up the seeds with its own bag and then empty that inside the bags inside of the barrel.

On workshop's hauling tools: Being able to assign wheelbarrows to workshops. This could help a lot specially in mason and stone craft workshops. I know workshops are currently placeholders and eventually will become more like areas so I don't know if this would need that first or not. In either case an entry job to a workshop like the errand boy with the wheelbarrow seems like a good way to start apprenticeships.

On apprenticeships: Once a dwarf is Expert or Professional on something he could take one or several apprentices that would assist on the tasks related to the field at hand (fetching materials, working on orders alongside the master. While this would train dwarves faster it could also slow down the speed of work than simply having dedicated haulers bring in the goods needed. Once/if workshops become areas and more complex an apprentice could start in the metal-smith feeding the furnace and doing nails and simple stuff like that.

On dinning halls: Being able to make dinning halls like Taverns but for citizens only. Automatic storage of drinks, food and related (mugs, dishes and related wares) but without the inebriation issues. Perhaps only nobles get served while regular dwarfs have to self-service. Dancing floors should be optional(manually on/off) for these.

On baby location: Moms leaving their children in a cradle furniture or/and with their siblings/neighbors/spouses when going to work if their job is considered dangerous (military, hunter).

On guilds and knight orders: Bring back guilds and introduce knight orders which could have all kinds of spheres, duties, preferences and bring politic diversity to the game.

On monster hunters: Be it with guilds, religious groups, knight orders, or lonesome, introduce dedicated monster hunters. Urist McBlemonth and Urist McVan Helsing could show up in fortress were the player is having a vampire issue. The player could see them as saviors or enemies, depending on their intentions and goals, if wanting to get rid of vampires or if going for a vampire fort.

On vampire forts: They are too easy now, we need some consequences for A) Vampires not drinking blood for years, decades or centuries and B) Having a fully converted fortress and getting caught at it. Vampires should become weaker, crazy or whatever, while your fort should be shunned, cut of from trade and besieged by your own (former) civilization.

On stockpiles: Better wood stockpiles (and stockpiles in general). But for starters wood stockpiles should allow more than one log per tile, as furniture piles should allow for stacking chairs, empty bags and the sort.

On ranged weapons: Define and rawify different baseline reload time for ranged weapons, or how long will it take for a total rookie to reload the weapon. The expertise level of experience on the weapon will gradually reduce the reload time. The range and stopping power of the weapons should vary depending on the projectile employed and the strength of the user in the case of weapons that use the wearer muscles (bows) and in the quality and state of the weapons in the case of mechanical ones (crossbows).

On military training: Make marskdwarves take ammo from bins to practice. Smooth the bugs in training and perhaps introduce squires.

On equipment of weapons: Allow soldiers carrying more than one weapon, a second or even third, fourth... weapon could be useful as long they know and try to use each whenever it apply best. This would be specially useful in the case of marskdwarves which could carry a crossbow, a short sword and a personal dagger, knife or axe.

On soldiers food and water: Make them eat/drink while on duty if they want to, do not make them wait to get out of it or storage it in trunks on the barracks.

On armories: Armories should be places definable from a weapon rack or armor stand, and just like barracks assignable to squads, where each rack/stand is then automatically or manually assigned to a soldier or group of soldiers for them to storage the equipment while off-duty.

On pipes: Make wood and metal pipes, faucets and manual pumps that you need to place in walls/floors to transport/drain liquid from one place to another easier once installed. This would allow for safer plumbing, water sources and the introduction of things like fountains and true baths.

On organic waste: While there has been debates whether or no Toady should introduce feces and urine in the game I propose another way. What if creatures periodically create something simply called waste. You could imagine it like feces yes, but in reality it shouldn't necessarily be that. Remember that dwarf mode has compressed time, so this waste could be simply the garbage, dirt dragged on the shoes and left overs of meals by the dwarf during a month or whatever. The same in the case of animals and others. This waste could then be disposed off in pits, plumbing or used as a base for fertilizer (left over from meals do make a good source of it in real life).

On seeds and cooking: Cooking vegetables shouldn't destroy it's seeds unless particularly ordered to do so. At least for some vegetables. It stands to reason that in example pumpkin seeds will taken out from the pumpkin before shoving it into the oven.

On aviculture and eggs recollection: There should be an option, either in general orders, or from the manager, or in the nest box where the collector should leave alone fertilized eggs instead of snatching them all every time. A simpler way would be a setting where you order to leave at least X amount of eggs when collecting, and make collectors prefer unfertilized eggs over the ones fertilized.


I'm sure all or most of these things are planned for the future, and some of them I already wrote them down in other places here, but still wanted to make a new, consolidated and updateable thread for my crazy ramblings. Thanks for reading.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 03:10:13 pm by LordBaal »
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I'm curious as to how a tank would evolve. Would it climb out of the primordial ooze wiggling it's track-nubs, feeding on smaller jeeps before crawling onto the shore having evolved proper treds?
My ship exploded midflight, but all the shrapnel totally landed on Alpha Centauri before anyone else did.  Bow before me world leaders!

Wyrdean

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Re: Lord Baal's quick series of suggestions.
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2016, 08:56:28 pm »

All I have to say is Neat.
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LordBaal

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Re: Lord Baal's quick series of suggestions.
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2016, 04:32:47 am »

Wow, thank you very much!

Made an update on seeds and eggs.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 09:20:55 am by LordBaal »
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I'm curious as to how a tank would evolve. Would it climb out of the primordial ooze wiggling it's track-nubs, feeding on smaller jeeps before crawling onto the shore having evolved proper treds?
My ship exploded midflight, but all the shrapnel totally landed on Alpha Centauri before anyone else did.  Bow before me world leaders!

SpoCk0nd0pe

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Re: Lord Baal's quick series of suggestions.
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2016, 02:03:24 pm »

This is a very good list!

I would add the requirement for much bigger farm plots, making fertilizers useful.
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Deboche

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Re: Lord Baal's quick series of suggestions.
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2016, 06:34:04 am »

I like most of them, here's some comments:

Quote
On paper usage by some nobles: Paper perhaps shouldn't be required for the manager, broker and bookkeeper to work, but some perks should be introduced for them doing so. Faster job orders? More focused workers? I figure a paper with the orders in your desk is harder to forget than a conversation with your boss a few weeks ago.
Maybe there could be stages for what a manager can do. It wouldn't make sense for a manager to require paper in a fortress with 10 dwarves. But in general, paper tends to make work slower and less efficient in real life. Bureaucracy, man.

Quote
On usefulness of nobles: Having those really noble (baron, count) positions in your fortress allow you to ask/automatically receive tributes from other settlements around you (if any). In a true feudal way of life having a noble would allow you to get access to resources offsite without need of trading. Weapons, soldiers, food and so on. On the other hand a noble might reclaim certain metals/jewels/materials for himself and those would be used only for whatever they seem fit (personal wealth, coinage, weapons, whatever). This could replace the nonsensical mandates.
Makes sense and will probably be implemented to a degree when the economy is. However, I'd like flexibility in the system of government and economy.

Quote
On ranged weapons: Define and rawify different baseline reload time for ranged weapons, or how long will it take for a total rookie to reload the weapon. The expertise level of experience on the weapon will gradually reduce the reload time. The range and stopping power of the weapons should vary depending on the projectile employed and the strength of the user in the case of weapons that use the wearer muscles (bows) and in the quality and state of the weapons in the case of mechanical ones (crossbows).
There were 2 types of crossbows(at least), one where you pulled the rope by hand and one which required you to use a mechanical device because it was too hard to do by hand. The second type was meant to puncture through armor. Also, crossbows were the weapon of choice for rookies because anyone can aim and shoot while bows take years to master. That should be reflected in the game.

As for waste, yeah it's been suggested before. When it comes to that, I really hope something is done about magma because otherwise all your pipes would end up in the magma sea. While realistic to a degree, it's not something you should be able to do forever.
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LordBaal

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Re: Lord Baal's quick series of suggestions.
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2016, 09:32:12 am »

This is a very good list!

I would add the requirement for much bigger farm plots, making fertilizers useful.
Thanks for the input! Yes, farming should be remade and there should be a easier way to stablish underground crops (which I think mushrooms is lacking) farms for you fortress, but I don't have much qualms about the current system. Perhaps making farms an area rather than a building. But that's supposed to happen with all workshops as well, so I guess eventually we'll end up with agricultural zones instead of what we have now.

I like most of them, here's some comments:

Quote
On paper usage by some nobles: Paper perhaps shouldn't be required for the manager, broker and bookkeeper to work, but some perks should be introduced for them doing so. Faster job orders? More focused workers? I figure a paper with the orders in your desk is harder to forget than a conversation with your boss a few weeks ago.
Maybe there could be stages for what a manager can do. It wouldn't make sense for a manager to require paper in a fortress with 10 dwarves. But in general, paper tends to make work slower and less efficient in real life. Bureaucracy, man.
That's a fine idea. Dunno how bureaucratic would a dwarf get, but I was thinking on the work orders side, to help keep track of them, not the work per se, which is already slower but more organized trough the manager. Holly crap I realize there's already bureaucracy in DF. It could be a trade off, the more paper the more automated and complicated you can do stuff, but the slower it goes trough all of it. Additional staffing could help.
I also thought on stuff like book of grudges and fat accounting ones for big fortresses.
Quote
On usefulness of nobles: Having those really noble (baron, count) positions in your fortress allow you to ask/automatically receive tributes from other settlements around you (if any). In a true feudal way of life having a noble would allow you to get access to resources offsite without need of trading. Weapons, soldiers, food and so on. On the other hand a noble might reclaim certain metals/jewels/materials for himself and those would be used only for whatever they seem fit (personal wealth, coinage, weapons, whatever). This could replace the nonsensical mandates.
Makes sense and will probably be implemented to a degree when the economy is. However, I'd like flexibility in the system of government and economy.
Well I'd figure that one can also dance around having nobles with unfortunate accidents or being reclusive enough, or now that scenarios will be a thing I figure some of them will feature no nobles position/immigration. By nobles I mean real nobles with royal tittles like barons and such. I don't really consider the militia commanders, bookkeeper and such (appointed ones) real nobles. The mayor is a special case because I can see a good one being eventually granted a tittle by the regent. But I digress.

I'm basing the idea out cases where in example silver, gold or salt mines where exclusively owned by nobles by law/decree/edict, as in no private business or commoner could own or mine those things for their own benefits and every newly discovered source automatically belonged to the closer, most appropriated noble. Although on second thoughts that was basically the case with everything under a feudal state. It's a dense subject because the dwarven economical and social dynamics could differ a lot from the human ones.

Quote
On ranged weapons: Define and rawify different baseline reload time for ranged weapons, or how long will it take for a total rookie to reload the weapon. The expertise level of experience on the weapon will gradually reduce the reload time. The range and stopping power of the weapons should vary depending on the projectile employed and the strength of the user in the case of weapons that use the wearer muscles (bows) and in the quality and state of the weapons in the case of mechanical ones (crossbows).
There were 2 types of crossbows(at least), one where you pulled the rope by hand and one which required you to use a mechanical device because it was too hard to do by hand. The second type was meant to puncture through armor. Also, crossbows were the weapon of choice for rookies because anyone can aim and shoot while bows take years to master. That should be reflected in the game.
100% agree. I keep picturing the dwarves using only mechanical crossbows but the manual reload ones are equally valid. The important thing would be to be able to specify the reload speed of a weapon, the range and penetration value of the projectile, so we could have things like repeating crossbows with relative low power and penetration but high rate of fire, or super antiarmor crossbows, slow to reload but capable of puncturing armor (as long the right projectile is used), and so on.
As for waste, yeah it's been suggested before. When it comes to that, I really hope something is done about magma because otherwise all your pipes would end up in the magma sea. While realistic to a degree, it's not something you should be able to do forever.
I laughed at the thought of my crapper pipes ending up on a fiery volcano inferno, instead of starting with one hahahaha. Mmmm didn't thought of that, despite being obvious everyone would to that. Now I'm thinking about magma pipes opening to bathe unwanted guest at the entrance. In real life the magma would eventually cool off and solidify in the pipes unless it's keep flowing permanently. Also the pipes would probably melt anyway. Don't know if Toady plans on making magma cool off eventually.
I guess abused magma pipes (the geological ones, not the plumbing ones) would eventually cool off or develop a solid crust or something because of the water and waste, unless the magma is constantly flowing in/out of the map or something.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2016, 09:35:04 am by LordBaal »
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I'm curious as to how a tank would evolve. Would it climb out of the primordial ooze wiggling it's track-nubs, feeding on smaller jeeps before crawling onto the shore having evolved proper treds?
My ship exploded midflight, but all the shrapnel totally landed on Alpha Centauri before anyone else did.  Bow before me world leaders!

Deboche

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Re: Lord Baal's quick series of suggestions.
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2016, 11:19:39 am »

I guess abused magma pipes (the geological ones, not the plumbing ones) would eventually cool off or develop a solid crust or something because of the water and waste, unless the magma is constantly flowing in/out of the map or something.
Agree with the rest, especially the explosion at the wrong end part. When it comes to this, maybe real magma can be simulated(probably uses a lot of processing power though) where different kinds can go from very liquid and runny to hard and explosive(poop joke possibilities galore, I know). It causes so much fun, it might as well be exploitable anyway I guess.
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