Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 45 46 [47] 48 49 ... 91

Author Topic: Gender/sexuality etc. - What Even Is A Gender Anyway  (Read 130094 times)

Solifuge

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Gender/sexuality etc. - The dark hammer has fallen upon us!
« Reply #690 on: October 28, 2016, 01:03:17 am »

A personal story, but today I received my first injection of hormone blockers! I'll update if I observe any interesting side effects, but the main thing is an absence of things happening. Also, my mum has said that sometime in 2018, she'd be okay with me starting hormones, and then, unless changes already happen, I can present myself as publicly female in 2019 at school etc. Which is pretty rad!

:D :D :D :D :D

That's super exciting, hon! The earlier you can start, the easier it'll be, and the better your results! Glad your folks are being supportive, too; that's so good to see.
Logged

Tiruin

  • Bay Watcher
  • Life is too short for worries
    • View Profile
Re: Gender/sexuality etc. - The dark hammer has fallen upon us!
« Reply #691 on: October 28, 2016, 04:07:53 am »

That's super exciting, hon! The earlier you can start, the easier it'll be, and the better your results! [...]
Well :'( Yay.
* Tiruin goes aaahhh, vaguely. :'(

That said, yay for you Digi! :D

Going back on topic...



Just saw this.

WHO'S CHOPPING SO MANY ONIONS?!
That's pretty neat.[...]
Could...I ask a textual description :x I can't load youtube videos currently.
Logged

spümpkin

  • Bay Watcher
  • coming to you live from the action
    • View Profile
Re: Gender/sexuality etc. - The dark hammer has fallen upon us!
« Reply #692 on: October 28, 2016, 05:08:18 am »

That's super exciting, hon! The earlier you can start, the easier it'll be, and the better your results! [...]
Well :'( Yay.
* Tiruin goes aaahhh, vaguely. :'(

That said, yay for you Digi! :D

Going back on topic...



Just saw this.

WHO'S CHOPPING SO MANY ONIONS?!
That's pretty neat.[...]
Could...I ask a textual description :x I can't load youtube videos currently.
Three girls enter a public restroom, a transwomen is in one of the stalls. She stresses out while they chat, and finally she walks out and is complimented, before it shows an image of the deodorant product it is an advertisment for, and it's basically a women's deodorant commercial promoting being nice to trans people I guess?
Logged
Quote from: Sergarr
When in doubt, use puns.
Quote from: Calidovi
in our own special way we are all shitpost
each day, when the sun shines and greets us with a smile, at least one of us finds that inner strength to spout bullshit on a forum revolving around the systemized slaughter of midgets
dont call me a shitposter, call me a spirit one with the shitpost atman
Quote from: Descan
that's pretty gay

TempAcc

  • Bay Watcher
  • [CASTE:SATAN]
    • View Profile
Re: Gender/sexuality etc. - The dark hammer has fallen upon us!
« Reply #693 on: October 28, 2016, 06:28:45 am »

Whoremoan blockers, you mean like a pillow or something? I am joking do not hit this adorable vibrating animal
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 06:30:18 am by TempAcc »
Logged
On normal internet forums, threads devolve from content into trolling. On Bay12, it's the other way around.
There is no God but TempAcc, and He is His own Prophet.

Dozebôm Lolumzalìs

  • Bay Watcher
  • what even is truth
    • View Profile
    • test
Re: Gender/sexuality etc. - The dark hammer has fallen upon us!
« Reply #694 on: October 28, 2016, 06:51:28 am »

Stuffing a pillow up your shirt is not a valid replacement for HRT. also joking
Logged
Quote from: King James Programming
...Simplification leaves us with the black extra-cosmic gulfs it throws open before our frenzied eyes...
Quote from: Salvané Descocrates
The only difference between me and a fool is that I know that I know only that I think, therefore I am.
Sigtext!

Starver

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Gender/sexuality etc. - The dark hammer has fallen upon us!
« Reply #695 on: October 28, 2016, 07:01:19 am »

Or further down for pregancy...  Does it need to be said that I'm joking too?
Logged

Edmus

  • Bay Watcher
  • Powerful toasting since 1893!
    • View Profile
Re: Gender/sexuality etc. - The dark hammer has fallen upon us!
« Reply #696 on: October 28, 2016, 07:24:11 am »

Congratulations DD!  :D

I imagine that would be quite the relief; the idea of my body changing in a way that goes against what I accept and expect is horrifying.
Like, puberty is already shitty enough, right?
Logged

Dozebôm Lolumzalìs

  • Bay Watcher
  • what even is truth
    • View Profile
    • test

I'm kind of torn about the prospect of hormone blockers. (Just at the "hmm what if" stage, I haven't made any moves or said this to anybody let alone a doctor/therapist/whatev.)

On the one hand, I miss the androgyny of pre-adolescence, and whatever my gender is, it's probably nearest to androgyny. And since all my research has only come up with "gender dysphoria is dysphoria because of gender," and dysphoria is pretty similar to depression, I don't know? It might be good to avoid moving further away from androgyny and toward more masculinity? And besides, hormone blockers just put off puberty, so if it turns out that I'm not androgyne or trans, no harm done. And even if it weren't reversible, it would be at worst "meh, I don't get more facial hair or a more masculine body. Okay, fine."

But on the other hand, I'm doing fine-ish as it is. I'm not sure if there's a need for treatment. And I'm still not sure if I'm noncis, or just confused. And I really don't want to talk about this to anybody.

Yes, but on the first hand, this is reversible. Come on, you know you want to science the fuck out of this unclear situation. You have the chance to know. You'll always wonder if you don't. The longer you wait, the less effective the treatment, and the more puberty you'll have go through.

I know, but I kind of feel like I need more information.

So do I! That's why we should talk to a person whose job it is to -

no no no, no talking

dammit Doz, we'll have to talk about this sooner later. As I was saying, the best choice is to talk to somebody about this, since talking doesn't mean we have to do the treatment. It just means that we get more information and help.

(just wanted to share my internal monologue/dialogue/whatev)

(also advice would be cool)

(wait, no, I already got the advice of talking to somebody)

(didn't I?)
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 03:42:46 pm by Dozebôm Lolumzalìs »
Logged
Quote from: King James Programming
...Simplification leaves us with the black extra-cosmic gulfs it throws open before our frenzied eyes...
Quote from: Salvané Descocrates
The only difference between me and a fool is that I know that I know only that I think, therefore I am.
Sigtext!

Neonivek

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile

Ok I won't lie...

I SERIOUSLY SERIOUSLY wonder how much of Gender Dysphoria is just... completely just the person bending to gender norms and their expectations of gender normative behavior and body image.

If there is one thing that bugs me about someone going through it, it is why I don't console people suffering from gender dysphoria if I have the option, it is that they will sometimes point to societal conventions as excuses...

This isn't always the case... but I want to slap someone who goes "I like puppy calendars so I am a girl"... and I am not taking that back.

Then again... there is quite a bit to suggest that I am onto something... but I won't go there because it is too depressing a topic that is too interwoven into political issues AND is too polarized to ever get a meaningful topic out of it.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 03:47:42 pm by Neonivek »
Logged

TheBiggerFish

  • Bay Watcher
  • Somewhere around here.
    • View Profile

@Dozebôm:*supports talking to knowledgeable peoples*
Logged
Sigtext

It has been determined that Trump is an average unladen swallow travelling northbound at his maximum sustainable speed of -3 Obama-cubits per second in the middle of a class 3 hurricane.

Calidovi

  • Bay Watcher
  • agnus dei
    • View Profile

Ok I won't lie...

I SERIOUSLY SERIOUSLY wonder how much of Gender Dysphoria is just... completely just the person bending to gender norms and their expectations of gender normative behavior and body image.

If there is one thing that bugs me about someone going through it, it is why I don't console people suffering from gender dysphoria if I have the option, it is that they will sometimes point to societal conventions as excuses...

This isn't always the case... but I want to slap someone who goes "I like puppy calendars so I am a girl"... and I am not taking that back.

Then again... there is quite a bit to suggest that I am onto something... but I won't go there because it is too depressing a topic that is too interwoven into political issues AND is too polarized to ever get a meaningful topic out of it.

there is gender dysphoria

and there is being a civil human being that likes puppy calendars
Logged






Edmus

  • Bay Watcher
  • Powerful toasting since 1893!
    • View Profile

re Dozebôm,

From my experience, school councillors are very good.
It is their job to be compassionate, and your problem is one that can be tackled far more directly than the poverty cycle teens they are used to.
They are very understanding, even of all the introspective-seeming-nonsense we never share; speaking to mine was one of the best decisions I've made.
If you're dubious as to the quality of the school councillor, doctors too are trained for compassion.
They mightn't know what to do, but can give you a referral to someone that does, and are sworn to secrecy.
If you decide to tell someone, the best tip for spilling the beans of a secret is to work yourself into a corner from somewhere innocuous.
"I recently did X"
Why did you do X?
"Because I constantly feel Y?"


Do you have any idea why you feel Y?
Nowhere to go, alphabet exhausted: "Z"

The best of luck to you!
Logged

spümpkin

  • Bay Watcher
  • coming to you live from the action
    • View Profile

I'm kind of torn about the prospect of hormone blockers. (Just at the "hmm what if" stage, I haven't made any moves or said this to anybody let alone a doctor/therapist/whatev.)

On the one hand, I miss the androgyny of pre-adolescence, and whatever my gender is, it's probably nearest to androgyny. And since all my research has only come up with "gender dysphoria is dysphoria because of gender," and dysphoria is pretty similar to depression, I don't know? It might be good to avoid moving further away from androgyny and toward more masculinity? And besides, hormone blockers just put off puberty, so if it turns out that I'm not androgyne or trans, no harm done. And even if it weren't reversible, it would be at worst "meh, I don't get more facial hair or a more masculine body. Okay, fine."

But on the other hand, I'm doing fine-ish as it is. I'm not sure if there's a need for treatment. And I'm still not sure if I'm noncis, or just confused. And I really don't want to talk about this to anybody.

Yes, but on the first hand, this is reversible. Come on, you know you want to science the fuck out of this unclear situation. You have the chance to know. You'll always wonder if you don't. The longer you wait, the less effective the treatment, and the more puberty you'll have go through.

I know, but I kind of feel like I need more information.

So do I! That's why we should talk to a person whose job it is to -

no no no, no talking

dammit Doz, we'll have to talk about this sooner later. As I was saying, the best choice is to talk to somebody about this, since talking doesn't mean we have to do the treatment. It just means that we get more information and help.

(just wanted to share my internal monologue/dialogue/whatev)

(also advice would be cool)

(wait, no, I already got the advice of talking to somebody)

(didn't I?)
Well, a little bit of forewarning...

Hormone blockers, at least in New Zealand, aren't often prescribed without the person doing hormones in the future. It's often used as a preliminary step, although it isn't compulsory, it helps. But yeah, I don't think you can do hormone blockers forever (for one, you'd have to get stabbed in the butt every 12 weeks for the rest of your life) due to it sorta effecting bone strength after long periods of use.
Logged
Quote from: Sergarr
When in doubt, use puns.
Quote from: Calidovi
in our own special way we are all shitpost
each day, when the sun shines and greets us with a smile, at least one of us finds that inner strength to spout bullshit on a forum revolving around the systemized slaughter of midgets
dont call me a shitposter, call me a spirit one with the shitpost atman
Quote from: Descan
that's pretty gay

Dozebôm Lolumzalìs

  • Bay Watcher
  • what even is truth
    • View Profile
    • test

Ok I won't lie...

I SERIOUSLY SERIOUSLY wonder how much of Gender Dysphoria is just... completely just the person bending to gender norms and their expectations of gender normative behavior and body image.

If there is one thing that bugs me about someone going through it, it is why I don't console people suffering from gender dysphoria if I have the option, it is that they will sometimes point to societal conventions as excuses...

This isn't always the case... but I want to slap someone who goes "I like puppy calendars so I am a girl"... and I am not taking that back.

Then again... there is quite a bit to suggest that I am onto something... but I won't go there because it is too depressing a topic that is too interwoven into political issues AND is too polarized to ever get a meaningful topic out of it.

Oh hell no. I'd be the last person to say "I am a girl because I like girly things." There might be a correlation, but since girly things are girly because girls like them and are supposed to like them... it's just too much of a can of worms to get into.

My consideration of HRT isn't about other people seeing me, anyhow. It's mostly about matching my self-perception with my identity. And while my Bogus Gibber-BabbleTM can tweak the way I see myself, it doesn't really work over extended periods of time.

And when I say that I've made my self-perception "feminine," I don't mean "with breasts etc." There's a slight feeling of a difference in body shape, perhaps, but that's more in the shoulder areas, and that isn't the primary part of the tweak. It's not really explainable. There's just a... variable in the data stored about a person, and one of them is "masculine/feminine," and I know this because all feminine people have that as a 1 and all masculine people have that as a 0. I can switch that value to a 1 with my Bogus Gibber-Babble, but actually appearing less masculine would do the same.

I'd also like to note that my feeling of 'femininity' and 'masculinity' are completely subjective and shaped by the world around me. The same would apply to... pretty much everything. Sociology and psychology are fun.

Of course, that analogy is completely wrong. The best explanation I've found for gender is:
Code: [Select]
Masculine:----------
Feminine: ----------
Other:    ----------

Where it's a sliding scale for masculinity, femininity, and then the Other could be whatever third gender you identify as, I don't know. Hemidemisemifemis would look like

Code: [Select]
Masculine:O---------
Feminine: -O--------
Other:    O---------

And a "traditionally male person" would look like

Code: [Select]
Masculine:--------O-
Feminine: O---------
Other:    O---------

I'd probably rank myself as

Code: [Select]
Masculine:-O--------
Feminine: --O-------
Other:    O---------

or similar.

But of course that is inadequate too. I conducted an experiment in which I used my BGB at different times and determined which self-perception felt most "right." The results were... interesting.

They never differed that far from androgyny, but there was a noticeable difference between my "optimal self-perception" throughout the day, masculine-androgynous at one point and feminine-androgynous at another. That is, my optimal self-perception is not time-independent! If you asked me to place my gender on the same scale before, you'd see something like

Code: [Select]
Masculine:--O-------
Feminine: --O-------
Other:    O---------

or like

Code: [Select]
Masculine:--O-------
Feminine: -O--------
Other:    O---------

So my gender-guess has gone from cisgender, to maybe transgender, to agender/genderless, to androgyne, to gender-fluid androgyne.

Okaaaaaaaay. I might be overthinking this, but who knows.

=====

That tangent aside, I do disagree with something you say. This part to be exact.

I don't console people suffering from gender dysphoria if I have the option

I sometimes feel like my presented gender is just an act, the steps I go through just because people expect it. Yet again, sociology to the rescue! Err, rescuing me from incorrect statements. Many things, not just gender, are 'roles' or 'acts' that people do. So part of gender dysphoria might arise from cultural things. But does that invalidate their feelings?

Second, what the hell dude. Unless... wait...

When people talk to you about their "gender dysphoria," are they saying "man I hate being a boy, I'm really a girl because I like ponies and shit"? That's not gender dysphoria. This isn't intended to tell them "your feelings don't matter," but gender dysphoria is a clinical term with an actual definition. Gender dysphoria is a profound feeling of anxiety or unease arising from a conflict between one's gender identity and the way they and others perceive them, or their sex and gender expression. It is usually resolved by changing the latter to align with the former.

So when somebody is going through gender dysphoria, it's basically depression because of unresolved transgenderness. So yes you console them, the same as anybody going through depression.

@Dozebôm:*supports talking to knowledgeable peoples*

Like whom?

there is gender dysphoria

and there is being a civil human being that likes puppy calendars

I know, right? Who doesn't like those... wait you said puppy. I was imagining kitten calendars.

PURGE THE HERETICS

re Dozebôm,

From my experience, school councillors are very good.
It is their job to be compassionate, and your problem is one that can be tackled far more directly than the poverty cycle teens they are used to.
They are very understanding, even of all the introspective-seeming-nonsense we never share; speaking to mine was one of the best decisions I've made.
If you're dubious as to the quality of the school councillor, doctors too are trained for compassion.
They mightn't know what to do, but can give you a referral to someone that does, and are sworn to secrecy.
If you decide to tell someone, the best tip for spilling the beans of a secret is to work yourself into a corner from somewhere innocuous.
"I recently did X"
Why did you do X?
"Because I constantly feel Y?"


Do you have any idea why you feel Y?
Nowhere to go, alphabet exhausted: "Z"

The best of luck to you!

Thanks! I think that I will try that.

oh shit

How do I start a conversation like that? *is a clueless and nervous socially incompetent person*

Well, a little bit of forewarning...

Hormone blockers, at least in New Zealand, aren't often prescribed without the person doing hormones in the future. It's often used as a preliminary step, although it isn't compulsory, it helps. But yeah, I don't think you can do hormone blockers forever (for one, you'd have to get stabbed in the butt every 12 weeks for the rest of your life) due to it sorta effecting bone strength after long periods of use.

I'm not in NZ, and I don't think this applies in the US. And yes, I know that I can't hold off puberty of some sort forever, but there's something reassuring about how the first stages of hormone-changing-things aren't permanent.

Hmmm. A misconception and logical inconsistency that I held has been refuted by more research. Going off of HB will just result in puberty coming back like normal. I knew this. What I didn't draw from that was the following conclusion: I will need to have puberty, whether it's testosterone or estrogen that triggers it. Armokdamn it, what if I don't want either the masculine or the feminine secondary sexual characteristics? The decision is paralyzing.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 05:21:11 pm by Dozebôm Lolumzalìs »
Logged
Quote from: King James Programming
...Simplification leaves us with the black extra-cosmic gulfs it throws open before our frenzied eyes...
Quote from: Salvané Descocrates
The only difference between me and a fool is that I know that I know only that I think, therefore I am.
Sigtext!

Neonivek

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile

I don't console people with gender dysphoria IF I have a choice...

Because I am not the best person for the job silly :P

I am far too clumsy and temperamental. I'd just end up hurting them somehow.

But usually you don't get a choice, someone needs to talk.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 45 46 [47] 48 49 ... 91