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[milo christiansen]

Hmmm... Weird. Did you try "[PRINT_MODE:2D]"? If that fixes it the problem is TWBT, report your problems in the TWBT thread (found in the utilities subforum).

[milo christiansen]

I am almost done with chaos cults, actually they would be done if it wasn't for the interactions seemingly not working properly. Once I figure out why interactions don't seem to be triggering as I expected (and do some other testing) I'll post a new version with the newest way to have your settlement go down in flames! (Hint: Priests will be very useful next version)

[Thuellai]

Found a small bug with lho rolling.  It takes two leaves to make a lho stick, but if your lho roller gets ahold of a bag with only one leaf in it, he'll still try and roll new lho sticks...  and get stuck in an infinite loop where no lho sticks are produced.  It's probably because they're in a bag.  Either removing the requirement of the bag or reducing the number of leaves to 1 would fix it, and it only happens if you're stuck with a bag of only one leaf, anyways

EDIT:  There doesn't seem to be a way to make ash?  There's a charcoal reaction at the smelter, but not an ash one.  No ash means no fertilizer.

EDIT2:  Tiny but kind of odd bug:  Any fish-based dish shows up as 'van saar x' (van saar pie, van saar soup, fried van saar, etc) and shows 'minced van saar' in its ingredients instead of sludge prawns.

[milo christiansen]

 I may be able to avoid using a bag for lho, but that would remove one of the costs of this production chain, something I don't want to do. I'll try to come up with a solution to this problem for next version (maybe use DFHack to ensure bags always contain an even number of lho leaves?).

There should be a way to make ash... I think I may know what's wrong, it will definitely work next version.

The cooked fish issue sounds very weird. I'll have to fix that

Thank you for the reports!

[Thuellai]

One potential fix that would actually increase resource costs would be to require one leaf each from two bags, in the way a lot of rockcrete stuff requires multiple barrels of slurry.  Has the disadvantage of potentially leaving the player with one last bag of lho with multiple leaves in it, and of course requiring twice as many bags.

Having a lot of fun so far.  I've found that while lho is a great staple trade good, the real money's in fried food - once you have a decent pile of grox, they produce enough meat and fat to produce some really solid stacks of fried food and meat based dishes, supplemented by whatever wildlife you can claw to death with your assortment of caravan-bought weapons.  Cawdor-brand cheese sticks are a chief export.

[milo christiansen]

I tried to dilute food value by making it so that ingredients have no quality, is prepared food still unrealistically valuable? If it is I can probably reduce ingredient values at least a little.

I'll have some solution for lho next version (which will be up just as soon as I can get chaos cults working).

[Thuellai]

High-quality meals still have values in the thousands for sufficiently large stacks, but are definitely a lot less valuable than in default DF.  Plus, early on, trading away prepared meals often means trading away precious, beautiful barrels, which I love like my own sons for being one of the hardest things to mass-produce until you have a decent plastic industry going.  I'm like, six years in at this point and sitting on an advanced metal industry (metal shop, arc forge, and slag separator) so at this point with my 90+ hivers it's not too hard to make fresh barrels.

[milo christiansen]

OK, I probably won't nerf prepared meals then

About barrels, did you embark in an area without trees? Wood works fine for barrels. (I need to figure out a way to reduce the wood supply)

If you see any place where the balance seems "off" let me know, I haven't run many long term settlements myself.

[Thuellai]

Embark didn't have many trees...  at first.  Long term, trees grew explosively in my biome, I'm actually have a hard time keeping the fields clear with scavs these days, especially since I don't need the wood/junk as bad.

Advanced industries are pretty luck-based, but in a way that seems sensible - I just ended up buried under fuel rods for a little while before I got the precious, necessary capacitors for a lot of my work.

Things definitely get a lot easier once you get established, although I've also been fortunate to not be attacked too often - a Spyrer visit that I managed to survive by piling twenty bodies and most of my livestock on him, and a Van Saar gunslinger party - my hab block is all twisty tunnels, so they didn't get many opportunities for shots before angry men with crowbars were crushing their skulls.  Being at peace with the Redemptionists is probably helping, though - not having everything set on fire all the time, and all.

[milo christiansen]

The trees growing like crazy after embark is a DF problem I (sadly) can't do anything about.

Advanced industries are supposed to be at least a little luck based, so that sounds about right.

I can't really think of any way (short of invaders, which are somewhat flaky due to DF) to make the late game harder, well chaos cults should do that once I get them going Chaos cults should be downright evil. The prepared player will have some combat against a lesser daemon inside the settlement, with no warning, the unprepared player could have half his citizens turning on the other half, lead by greater daemons with warnings only showing when it is almost too late (insert evil laughter). Neglecting religion next version could lead to a quick end!

[Thuellai]

Well, there's one good solution for 'way too many trees' - turning my rockcrete block production towards more paved roads, turning this underhive into a proper hab block.  What kind of ecumenopolis has grass?

EDIT:  Oh!  One weird bug I have noticed is that certain items will sometimes multiply on the trade request screen.  Like, there are six request slots for 'plastic barrels' at this point from the Guilders.

[milo christiansen]

That is almost certainly caused by the way I add materials to entities. It should not do that (obviously), but I can make some changes to make it completely impossible (provided the problem is what I think it is anyway).

I just had a thought: I could write a script that looked for saplings on the surface and delete them, no more huge forests of surface trees! Maybe allow a low chance to let one alone so trees can grow back very, very slowly?

[Thuellai]

I'd say cutting the growth rate down to like, 1/2 or even 1/4th will provide some amount of 'still get supplies over the long term' while significantly reducing the overgrowth.  If the script deletes 3/4 saplings, and a handful of the rest are getting trampled by traffic, that should make woods significantly sparser without completely crippling scavenging as a steady source of low-tier material.

EDIT: Wouldn't mind seeing some fun rare weapons - trade-only stuff like Eviscerators (because who doesn't love a two-handed chainsword) and the like, as a chance to bring in some really impressive topside gear.  Maybe even lasguns.  Also, not sure the Delaque entity actually has their spy post added as a permitted building in the files - I haven't played as them yet, but I built the mod with them as the active player once and it added building_spy and reaction_spy but didn't seem to have added those buildings/reactions to the main entity.  Would like to see them expanded, and also to see some of the more iconic clothing items added depending on house - longcoats for Delaque, masks for Cawdor, etc.  Give them a bit more flavor.  Maybe even eventually allow for all six houses to be on the map at once.

EDIT2:  Found a glitch!  Escher MALES are getting the agility and Sword/Dodging buffs, and the pop ratio is tilted towards males, not females.

EDIT3:  A few bugs in the graphics files - Animals, Cawdor, and Delaque text files are pointing towards pngs that don't exist, causing crashes if you enable creature tiles.  Specifically 'animals.png' instead of UHS_animal.png, and the two hiver files missing the UHS in front. (Should be UHS_hiver_cawdor and UHS_hiver_delaque)

[Thuellai]

Rad storms are brutally lethal.  I've yet to have someone caught in one survive, there's just no way to save them.  And if you're in a biome where they happen, they happen hideously frequently - you need to rush underground as soon as you can, which majorly restricts your access to vital junk.

EDIT:  Brewing liquor doesn't actually do anything to extend your drink supply, since creating booze consumes as much water as the amount of booze it makes.  If anything, it just splits your water over multiple barrels.  I suppose it does at least generate pleasant thoughts thanks to inebriation.

EDIT2:  Just noticed - female hivers are being generated with facial hair.  Didn't realize until I decided to play around in adventure mode and ended up generating an Escher lady with a neatly-combed mustache and beard.  Went digging in the raws - looks like females are being assigned facial hair layers, and males are ending up with MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE.  Looks like some switched orders, like the problem that male and female eschers were having.  Goliaths were also having trouble with the improvements meant for males being handed out to female goliaths, and the extremely reduced combat skill rates being handed out to ALL Goliaths, overwriting the bonuses males are supposed to get.  Was able to fix most of them by fiddling with the orders in the base Rubble files.

EDIT3:  Flavor note:  The current description for Redemptionists is 'A person entrusted with enforcing the harsh and merciless law of the Hive.'  The Redemptionists are an outlaw cult, so this seems probably incorrect?  Although, on the subject of law and order...  one possible endgame threat to implement could actually be the Arbites, who are generally significantly better armed and equipped than any of the groups underhive.  Arbites have access to actually good armor and things like lasguns, autocannons, and even bolt weaponry, which would make them a suitable challenge for a well-established hive.  They did get Necromunda rules, even.

[milo christiansen]

Brewing should use less water than the amount of drink produced, anything else is a bug.

Oops, I messed up the order of the template arguments... The new version still has this issue, but next version will have it fixed.

The redemptionist description is a bug, it is actually the description from the "enforcers" a creature from the old mod that was apparently not used for anything (they didn't have an entity). Not sure how I got the descriptions crossed... Late game challenge is supposed to be provided by pitslaves, they have decent gear, and built-in melee weapons. Arbites are a good idea though


2.2.0 is up now!

This version fixes all the bugs reported (except the three mentioned above) as well as adding chaos cult. Before you get too excited, chaos cults almost certainly don't work. AFAIK everything is correct, but priests don't seem to use their interactions... I assume the same problem applies to cult leaders, but I never say one during testing.

Anyway, I'll have a new bug fix version up soon (hopefully by friday) fixing everything but cults, I have no idea when (or how) I will get cults working as expected.