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Author Topic: Certainly one way to introduce oneself.  (Read 3384 times)

mangame5

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Certainly one way to introduce oneself.
« on: September 13, 2016, 09:53:28 am »

Hiho! After lurking about, gasping in awe at megaprojects, giggling at what Urist did or didn't, attempting to emulate what certain players created and ending up with tons of (usually wet, drowny / hot, burny) fun, I decided to hop on and say hello.
What better way to say hi than to barge in with a little project.

I'll start with what got me into this.
The last few days were spent with no internet connection. It bit the dust and it took a while to fix the issue. (Aye, it took us three days to figure out what happened and replace a modem.) During this downtime I decided to fire up DF and see what happens.
Right, first fortress died due to a Werechameleon, wonderful. Still, I'd rather have that than a tantrum spiral. No matter, wasn't going that well anyway. The second fortress though is probably my best one yet, at least in certain aspects.
I am not really the best player out there. I still haven't wrapped my head around trading, nor the military stuff (This will bite me in the backdoor and I know it. I am aware of the dangers that come with high value rooms/objects), but I know how to do the essentials, or at least the rest of them. Anyway, the thing that makes me proud at the moment is the meeting hall/dining room and dwarf accommodations. I don't try to be the most efficient. I like things to look nice (In a way or another, usually symmetry. I won't bother with trying to match colors.) either from my perspective, or from a dwarf's perspective. My dwarves enjoy ample personal space, each with his or her own bedroom,smoothed walls and floors, bed, chest and cabinet, most of the furniture being of high quality. Then there's the dining room/meeting hall. 21x21, smoothed floors, smoothed-then-engraved walls, 11 golden statues, solid gold well that draws from a cistern, neatly spaced tables and chairs and the two doors that lead into it are also of solid gold, one being an artifact from a moody dwarf. (It menaces with spikes of gold!)

So I thought to myself, what would this look like if one would enter such a massive room? I know there's utilities to render Dwarf Fortress in three dimensions, some even outputting the stuff to Minecraft, but I wasn't satisfied. I wanted it to look proper, to be true to the fort (Mostly, you'll see the differences) and to be fun to explore.
So I fired up Minecraft (Vanilla, except for some shader stuff) and got to work. Not using any fancy commands, I wanted this to be made by hand. Yes, it is in creative mode, but I will openly admit that I am not dwarfy enough to do this in survival mode. That would be insane.
I figured out that if I wanted this to look somewhat neat, but to be manageable in creation and feel good in exploration, a single Dwarf Fortress "block" (Or unit or whatever) inside its Z plane would translate into a 2x2 Minecraft block format. Like this, a 2 block tall player would sort of be the size of a hobbit, a dwarf being at around 3 blocks tall, a human about 4. Z height was the hardest to figure out, so I decided that it would be like this: The floor plane (1 block), empty volume (4 blocks), the ceiling (1 block) and on top of that the next floor plane (1 block). The next problem was light. I didn't like the idea of torches, so instead I added glowstone blocks here and there, trying to make the fort look a bit gloomy, moody. This comes from the shader, with smoothed out colored lights. Some are sunk into the ceiling, some aren't, depending on where they are.
The fortress will be recreated block by block, the exceptions being small changes that don't mess with the layout: Window in the floodgate control room, pleasant layout for stockpiles. The outside world will have its more important features rendered properly, by hand: The river; the channel from the river, to the water-room (pre-cistern room that features two floodgates), down to the cistern itself; the main road. Trees will be massive, as they should be, since you are technically hobbit sized. Though these things will come later on.

So, I am ten hours in and have finished some things. The road, the entrance with the trade depot, the food creation/processing area (farms and workshops), the food and booze stockpiles and the meeting hall. I will need some help on designing some things, such as how to represent the well and if there are any better ideas for the statues. (Think that's the best you can do on 2x2x3)

The Fortress as it is in DF
The Surface: Access to the fortress, road is still being worked on, channel from river on the right.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Farm and food workshops: Here you can see the farm and relevant workshops: still, farmer's workshop, butcher's Shop (With separate room for carcasses) and the kitchen.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Floodgate Control: Floodgate Control Room (FCR). Yes, I know it's flawed due to lack of pressure, but with two or three cycles you can fill the Cistern.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Meeting Hall/Dining Room. Dwarf bedrooms. Food/Booze stockpiles. Future Barracks: Golden Well is missing due to fear of flooding. Will be placed back again.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Fortress as it is in Minecraft
Inside the tunnel: A bit dark since it's night outside.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Trade Depot: Currently a work in progress. Water for animals that tug the caravans to drink, chests for obvious reasons.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Farm and workshops.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Better look at the workshops.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Floodgate Control Room.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Meeting Hall/Dining Room: 42x42x4 in volume. I had to figure out how to make tables and thrones in a 2x2 format, this is the best I could come up with.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Meeting Hall/Dining Room 2: Gold statues had to be on a 2x2 format. Best thing I could come up with was this sorta blocky double helix thing.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Booze Stockpile.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Food Stockpile.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Well: Surrounded by four golden statues, the well is made of gold as well, to be nice and consistent.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So, what do you think? Aye, the fortress itself isn't something to write home about. There are many like it, most in way better shape, but this one is mine. Still, after finishing the stuff I have done so far and walking around inside, it made me think of DF differently, how impressive things that are considered mundane can be... It made DF a lot more fun for me.
Once this is done, which will probably take a good while, I'll try and put up the MC world and the DF save so people can futz around in them as they please. I will work on it alone and the only Minecraft utility I'll ever use is something to change the biome the fort is in. A good few hours into the project I went outside and found that it's snowing, which isn't happening in the DF area. (And even if it did, I'd still change it.)

[EDIT]
Here's the images in an imgur album format, if people prefer that.

[EDIT]
With the help of fellow dwarf Silverthrone, the well has been completed. The statues around it were removed, both in MC and DF as it did look a bit crowded, but the well now... Looks like a well! Huzah!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)







« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 07:18:05 am by mangame5 »
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TheImmortalRyukan

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Re: Certainly one way to introduce oneself.
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2016, 12:11:42 pm »

Very kewl, love it

And welcome to Bay12forums, leave your sanity by the door and just throw your morals down the garbage shoot over there
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The Tale of Runlance - A Succession Fort in a Dying World

While the drink stocks run low and violence is rampant, the narcissistic tyrant demands a monument to his name

mangame5

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Re: Certainly one way to introduce oneself.
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2016, 12:17:02 pm »

Very kewl, love it

And welcome to Bay12forums, leave your sanity by the door and just throw your morals down the garbage shoot over there

Thank you for the warm welcoming! The ashes of my !!Sanity!! have been already dumped off a cliff, same with !!Morale!!.
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SaberToothTiger

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Re: Certainly one way to introduce oneself.
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2016, 12:48:17 pm »

Good luck. You're gonna need it.

And let me wish you a happy stay 'ere.
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It's like tea leaf divination, but with cartoon leprechauns.
There are only two sure things in life: death and taxes and lists and poor arithmetic and overlong jokes and poor memory and probably a few more things.

mangame5

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Re: Certainly one way to introduce oneself.
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2016, 12:51:54 pm »

Good luck. You're gonna need it.

And let me wish you a happy stay 'ere.
Aye, thank ye!
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StarWars1981

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Re: Certainly one way to introduce oneself.
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2016, 02:39:24 pm »

I really like the aesthetic of your MC reproduction. Very cool, very good job. What're you gonna make of the caverns? Gonna reproduce them too?
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mangame5

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Re: Certainly one way to introduce oneself.
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2016, 03:05:26 pm »

I really like the aesthetic of your MC reproduction. Very cool, very good job. What're you gonna make of the caverns? Gonna reproduce them too?
No, I apologize. The fortress, small as it is, is close to reaching the bottom limit of the MC map, which is at 250~ blocks down. In other things, though, it will be gigantic. The river alone will span hundreds of blocks in length, reaching 8 in width and seven or so in depth.
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Silverthrone

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Re: Certainly one way to introduce oneself.
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2016, 03:50:56 pm »

Nice! Absolutely fabulous! Now, forgive me when I go knicking your Minecraft visualistion idea. I'm kicking myself for not thinking of it myself.

I like the fort, it feels rather homely. It'll be fun to see it expand. See if you can't slap in some nice temples and such.

And a warm welcome to the Bay.

EDIT: A suggestion for the well.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Includes blood and abandoned buckets.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2016, 04:11:17 pm by Silverthrone »
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mangame5

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Re: Certainly one way to introduce oneself.
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2016, 05:40:56 pm »

Nice! Absolutely fabulous! Now, forgive me when I go knicking your Minecraft visualistion idea. I'm kicking myself for not thinking of it myself.

I like the fort, it feels rather homely. It'll be fun to see it expand. See if you can't slap in some nice temples and such.

And a warm welcome to the Bay.

EDIT: A suggestion for the well.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Includes blood and abandoned buckets.

Ooooh, that looks nice.  Neat touch with the blood and buckets, but I think I'll leave those out and adapt your idea to this scale. Remember, these are dwarves and you're hobbit sized. I think I have to remove the statues around the well as it is way too crowded. Thank you for the idea!
Here's the final product:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: September 13, 2016, 06:31:28 pm by mangame5 »
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Certainly one way to introduce oneself.
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2016, 07:24:10 pm »

Hm, haven't seen 2x3 individual bedrooms much before. They look like batteries. I'm partial to "cram all beds into 1 room", though

If you like aesthetics, definitely consider colour. Last time I did a proper fort (Deathgame), had a nice mix of magneta, gold and cyan as well as littered mural. You can stick a mason's workshop right in freshly-dug dining hall to make chairs and tables without much hauling, but I find the resulting grey on gray (typically) looks like there's nothing in particular there, a pointless thing.

And, hm. DF doesn't look good zoomed out that much, feels like a cacophony >_<

TheImmortalRyukan

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Re: Certainly one way to introduce oneself.
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2016, 08:04:54 pm »

Hm, haven't seen 2x3 individual bedrooms much before. They look like batteries. I'm partial to "cram all beds into 1 room", though

If you like aesthetics, definitely consider colour. Last time I did a proper fort (Deathgame), had a nice mix of magneta, gold and cyan as well as littered mural. You can stick a mason's workshop right in freshly-dug dining hall to make chairs and tables without much hauling, but I find the resulting grey on gray (typically) looks like there's nothing in particular there, a pointless thing.

And, hm. DF doesn't look good zoomed out that much, feels like a cacophony >_<

2x3 is how I've always done it... is that wrong?
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Certainly one way to introduce oneself.
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2016, 08:19:03 pm »

It's just that most individual bedrooms I see are either 2x2, 3x3 or 4x1 ('cuz easier to designate, I guess). I suppose 3x2 would look more square with non-square tileset if you like squares but don't like squares, but tbh question is asking like is there a wrong way to paint pictures.

Which does have a "technically, yes" answer - you could decide to paint with your tongue instead of a brush, for instance. You could make a 3dimensional maze so long that dwarf will starve to death before they can reach bed and come back to dining room, for example.

But for a bit more callous overseer, you only need to build beds as much as you need to paint - not at all, really. It's mostly an aesthetic thing.

MobRules

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Re: Certainly one way to introduce oneself.
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2016, 12:04:59 am »

Lately, I've been doing Inn rooms 2x3 and citizen rooms 2x4.
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mangame5

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Re: Certainly one way to introduce oneself.
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2016, 06:52:48 am »

Hm, haven't seen 2x3 individual bedrooms much before. They look like batteries. I'm partial to "cram all beds into 1 room", though

If you like aesthetics, definitely consider colour. Last time I did a proper fort (Deathgame), had a nice mix of magneta, gold and cyan as well as littered mural. You can stick a mason's workshop right in freshly-dug dining hall to make chairs and tables without much hauling, but I find the resulting grey on gray (typically) looks like there's nothing in particular there, a pointless thing.

And, hm. DF doesn't look good zoomed out that much, feels like a cacophony >_<
Oh I apologize. Guess I had set it like that for some reason and got used to it. If anything, it's 1080p and one can zoom in manually without much degradation.
Colours aren't really much of a priority, but it will come up later on in other fortresses, once I can handle the game properly. I don't mind the grey-on-grey thing, I care more about positioning and order.
Sadly, sometimes things don't work as well as planned. What might look neat in Dwarf Fortress, upon closer inspection seems actually quite uncomfortable.
Here's the room in its current, probably final form:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The stuff on the right is fine. Statues had to go as they were cramming up the place around the well. (See the second [EDIT] in the main post)
The stuff on the left might be confusing. A statue seems to be missing. Because I didn't want to leave doors out of this, I had to think of a way of including them and leaving them all open.
Doors are 3x1x4. One of the block columns would be the "hinge" and in a sense is stationary, the other two "swing" around. When closed, it looks sealed. When open, a block juts out. On its own, I like it. When there's stuff right next to it, I'm miffed.
Here's an example of a door:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I've done two models of the room entrance, so one can see it easier. (I've marked where the offending statue would be placed in DF):
-Doors open:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
-Doors closed:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And here's how it looks with the statue there:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That is not comfortable. In my rendition of the fortress in Minecraft, dwarves would be three blocks tall and around two blocks wide. A one block space is not comfortable for one of them. So the statue had to go.



Since there seems to be a lot of talk about the rooms, I've made a prototype.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Minecraft's blockiness strikes again. I considered using the beds provided by the game, but they're a bit too small. For the same reason I've placed the chest a bit higher, for ease of access.
What do you guys think? I did also consider making them just wooden forms so they're more faithful to the game, but I thought that since there aren't pillows, blankets or plumes in Dwarf Fortress, I could make them a bit more comfortable in this.

« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 07:15:05 am by mangame5 »
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Certainly one way to introduce oneself.
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2016, 08:01:34 am »

Well, DF tends to look bit different on different screens. With differing pixels/area, different zoom levels look great.

Screenshots don't translate that over well, however.

Colour demonstration of gray on grey fading to background...I like this picture for that:



But if doens't brother you, more efficiency to ya!

About doors, in vanilla every tile is 2x2x3 meters, though they may also be revolving doors in case of glass ones or something. And metal and wood ones look different too.

The rooms feel smaller in minecraft. Bed takes up more space...Which is appropriate with the dimensions you've chosen.
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