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Author Topic: How do you decide whether to fight a Forgotten Beast?  (Read 3677 times)

muldrake

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How do you decide whether to fight a Forgotten Beast?
« on: September 24, 2016, 11:27:00 am »

My first few of these were absurdly easy, to the point I thought they were overrated.  One of them, a wrestler killed by punching it.

Then I ran into some horror made out of glass that threw webs and it killed half my fortress in a couple minutes.

My current strategy is to evacuate and close the drawbridge the moment one of these shows up, and to have a backup drawbridge, too.  Then I look at the combat messages.  The main thing I've noticed other than obvious horrors like poison dust and fire breathing and web slinging is that when they nearly instantly kill everything they meet down there, they're usually not worth tangling with.  These usually are accompanied by messages that the blow threw the creature into a wall, and then you never hear about that creature again.

If they have trouble defeating a cave crocodile, though, you can usually just go down and kill them.

What metrics do you use for making these decisions?
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Evans

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Re: How do you decide whether to fight a Forgotten Beast?
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2016, 11:47:02 am »

- fun factor
- is a bait trap available -> if yes, keep the beast for a siege event
- availability of steel bolts/arrows and a way to pepper the monster from afar.

When subjected to intense repeated trauma from a hail of steel arrows, most of the beasts collapse in minutes.

Keep in mind that non-organic beasts do NOT HEAL.

I am currently having a giantess infected with werezebra syndrome. One day I will have to put her to the knife because there is no way to release her back into the wild.
Another captured titan is of a web spawning type - I can now make silk clothes with a very long (over 48 letters) name on them.

It basically pays to reinforce cave level with drawbridges and fortifications in more than one place.
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getlost.lua # How to get rid of tavern guests
function getlost ()
   local unit = dfhack.gui.getSelectedUnit (true)
   unit.flags1.forest = true
end
getlost ()

muldrake

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Re: How do you decide whether to fight a Forgotten Beast?
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2016, 05:33:11 pm »

Keep in mind that non-organic beasts do NOT HEAL.

This is why I often just close off the caverns and something else kills it.  I love just watching as a giant olm finishes off a forgotten beast. 

It still feels ridiculously cowardly, though.  I guess I just have to deal with these feels, though.
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: How do you decide whether to fight a Forgotten Beast?
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2016, 06:12:16 pm »

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muldrake

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Re: How do you decide whether to fight a Forgotten Beast?
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2016, 07:24:54 pm »



I've used this method and it's pretty okay when some dude just punches the thing to death.

But this method sucks when instead some monstrous creature made of glass that shoots webs completely destroys my fortress.
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mirrizin

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Re: How do you decide whether to fight a Forgotten Beast?
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2016, 09:43:26 pm »

Usually, look at the breath weapon and the material.

Most dangerous ones, I think, are fire, webs, and cave-in dust (basically in that order.)

That said, I've killed multiple beasts of each. If it's really bad, set up a cave-in trap and crush the blasted thing like the overgrown cockroach it is.
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muldrake

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Re: How do you decide whether to fight a Forgotten Beast?
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2016, 09:55:00 am »

It basically pays to reinforce cave level with drawbridges and fortifications in more than one place.

I now usually have three.  One right at the entrance, one a few levels up through a bit of a maze, and then the "sucks to be you if I ever have to close this with you on the other side" drawbridge.
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Iamblichos

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Re: How do you decide whether to fight a Forgotten Beast?
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2016, 02:25:49 pm »

My flow chart runs like this:

1) Do I need to access that layer of the caverns?  Yes/No?

If yes, then 2) What is the beast's attack method?  If dust/web/fire then abort (unless you REALLY need to get down there, in which case, build a cave-in trap) ELSE

3) whack it and take it to the kitchens/refuse pile.  Some beasts are good eatin'!
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I'm new to succession forts in general, yes, but do all forts designed by multiple overseers inevitably degenerate into a body-filled labyrinth of chaos and despair like this? Or is this just a Battlefailed thing?

There isn't much middle ground between killed-by-dragon and never-seen-by-dragon.

Salmeuk

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Re: How do you decide whether to fight a Forgotten Beast?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2016, 03:14:57 pm »

I avoid a fight if my cavern floor looks like this after only a few months of 'visitation' by the 'uninvited guest':

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Then again, most cavern denizens are pushovers when it comes to fighting larger beasts. A good steel sword can rip through pretty much anything, all you have to do is get a dwarf close enough and lucky enough to deliver a killing blow.

I've found random-gen surface titans to be much more intimidating, since they've managed to survive worldgen and rack up a few kills. Flying ones especially, since I have a bad habit of building walls without roofs.

Losing military to random BS is part of the game for me. I tend to keep dwarves in smaller squads of three or two, so I can test the capabilities of my foes without losing more than, say, twenty percent of my fighting force. If the first three steel-wielding legendaries fail to wound it significantly, I tend to assume the next three will also fail.
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pikachu17

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Re: How do you decide whether to fight a Forgotten Beast?
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2016, 10:42:57 am »

if it's a blob made of steel, don't fight it. it may not heal, but it probably doesn't need to.

Darkgamma

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Re: How do you decide whether to fight a Forgotten Beast?
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2016, 07:01:46 pm »

if it's a blob made of steel, don't fight it. it may not heal, but it probably doesn't need to.

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if it's a blob made of steel, don't fight it. it may not heal, but it probably doesn't need to.

Libash_Thunderhead

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Re: How do you decide whether to fight a Forgotten Beast?
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2016, 08:00:39 pm »

Those with AOE attacks or throw webs are true evil you don't want to fight with your melee suqads.
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pikachu17

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Re: How do you decide whether to fight a Forgotten Beast?
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2016, 10:13:03 am »

if it's a blob made of steel, don't fight it. it may not heal, but it probably doesn't need to.

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Melting Sky

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Re: How do you decide whether to fight a Forgotten Beast?
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2016, 05:26:18 pm »

I will generally go after just about anything that ends up coming at me, but as for ascertaining if they are "safe" to attack through normal conventional means, aka an angry steel clad dwarf with an axe, or resorting to more creative ones usually depends on two things. What it's made of and what it's special attack is.

The following special attacks should be feared and respected ranging from most potentially lethal to least.

1) Deadly Dust: This attack should be feared above all others. If you are lucky it will just create a blast similiar to a cave in flinging dwarves everywhere and then infecting them with something minor like blistering skin. If you are unlucky it can carry fun stuff like syndromes that induce near instantaneous necrosis of the lungs, brain, heart etc. If you are extra unlucky the dust will spread around your fort on the feet of exposed dwarves and it will have a delayed but lethal syndrome. Often the first indications of the coming doom will be fortress's cats melting for no apparent reason. Since they are smaller, syndromes often take them out first and then work their way up through the larger denizens of the fort. By this point it is often too late and dozens of dwarves will have been effected and nothing can stop the excruciating death that awaits them.

2) Deadly Gas: similiar to dust but it's evaporation point is below ambient temperature. It can carry all the same fun syndromes but at least the damn stuff doesn't stick around for years after the battle as a biohazaard.

3) Webs: You have encountered these yourself. Webs can be real pain for melee dwarves.

4) Fiery Breath: This is about on par with webs. It can be absolutely lethal if the surroundings are flamable or dwarves lack shields and shield skill.

5) Everything else. The rest of the special attacks aren't dangerous enough to bother with further delineation and can generally be fought using normal means. Just be careful not to trek forgotten beast residues around your fort as a general rule since syndromes can be devastating.

A good tactic if you are brave enough to think about actually facing down a syndrome carrying beast is send in the cats first. Drop a load of cats into the cavern and watch what happens. They are agile so you can usually get a couple that survive the encounter. If their brains start melting, or they start falling over with paralyzed lungs etc. you know the syndrome is of the extra lethal variety and you better rethink the frontal assault. If they just get blistered paws or something you know that you might be able to melee the thing.

The final thing you need to look at is what the beast is made of. As you discovered inorganic monstrosities can be VERY dangerous if they are made from strong material. A giant skinless stegosaurus made of mist might die to a fortress cat where as one made of steel or worse can take out legions of omni legendary clad melee dwarves. The worst example I have ever seen was Ishtar Uumaalek which was made of slade and had deadly dust. It was nigh invincible in combat.

 


« Last Edit: October 20, 2016, 12:11:12 am by Melting Sky »
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taptap

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Re: How do you decide whether to fight a Forgotten Beast?
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2016, 03:52:41 am »

My decision making process:

Can I utilise it?

A Yes -> I should trap it.
B I don't know how -> trap it anyway.
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