Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[itisnotlogical]

Speaking of Switch V2, this teardown reveals that the storage inside the Switch is designed to be easily removed. Perhaps the next Switch will have more memory?

Also, includes the best cartridge-tasting incident on video, because Ben also tastes several pieces of the case for comparison.

[wierd]

I note he mentions bandwidth on SDCards...  I presume that it may be possible to replace the MicroSDC in that assembly with a high bandwidth U3 card (something in the 90MB/S or higher range), which most high capacity cards have anyway.

This would be an issue when trying to replace with something cheap, like a commodity 64gb card, which is usually not class 10/U3, and is typically in the 30MB/Sec range.

Neat to know. Likely a V2 console will make this storage harder to upgrade. (I like how it is easily removed without a complete teardown.)


Still, upgrading/replacing the internal storage is likely going to need a full and extensive disk imaging to be performed, as I very much doubt that nintendo used a normal filesystem on the storage, and you are going to need the Switch's OS to be cloned to the new card. (IIRC, it lives in the NAND that you are replacing... So failure to clone the storage will result in a non-operating switch most likely.)  It might also be cryptographically tied to the SDCard, but that remains to be seen.

I note that the main PCB appears to have either a UART or a JTAG header...  (He mentions something like "that's ancient!" so I presume it is a UART.) Most likely this is the serial debug terminal used by something like u-boot during the initial kernel loading operation. That should be very useful for people wanting to break into the console... With how modular the design is, I expect the console will be broken into pretty quickly. If it is U-boot, there are options to load an "in-memory" kernel, delivered over the serial session using something like X-modem. IIRC, that is how the NES Reboot retro console was broken into. (The USB charging port is ALSO a serial UART, linked to the boot loader, which allowed similar kernel experimentation without touching the NAND.)

Very pleasing news to me. This thing might be running Linux before you know it.

[Krevsin]

edited quote:

Then again... given they are not meeting demand they are REALLY risking people catching onto the system's quality.

So... >_< I am going to have to wait until "The Good Switch" before making any real judgements. MAYBE Nintendo knows this list... and fixes everything within a year or two.

Kinda funny how over the years "version 2" of consoles have changed significantly in what we expect from them. A2600/SMS/NES/Megadrive/SNES/PS1/PS2 was "We can make it cheaper now. And a bit smaller, but we'll cut some hardware features as well. Have a free game!" to Xbox's "Our console doesn't burn out/red ring now! And we can make it cheaper. Have a free game!" to the Switch's theoretical "Maybe we should make it a little more expensively. It probably won't scratch your screen/plastic lock your controllers/lose controller reception then! We'll consider the free game thing, maybe."

Too much hardware -> less hardware (or the required hardware in the odd case of the Xbox), but always smaller and cheaper and with a poorer build quality in version 2. And a free game!

I'd wait for version 2. It'll be worrying if they make it more cheaply on certain components and you lose hardware features, as is mostly the case for console part-generations. How low can they go, considering the current version's build quality?

It might be the first console where version 2 is genuinely better from a build quality and usability standpoint than the inital big-box release was. Or it might not, considering the normal trend of these things.

I imagine that if they ditch the HD Rumble and replace it with ordinary rumble thing without sacrificing anything else, it'd be a whole hell of a lot cheaper to make. HD rumble modules aren't something available off-the-shelf to my knowledge so they probably have to manufacture them. Cut that bit out and you've got mostly off-the-shelf components.

Ditch the dock and the controller from the package, just include the SD rumble joycons, wrist straps and a charger and I reckon you could easily bump down the price to like 200$ or even lower without sacrificing build quality.

if you don't care about build quality, I reckon you could easily pull of a 2DS type deal and just have a Switch variant without detachable joycons and slightly shoddier build, you could bump it down much lower.

Of course all those things would require investment into design and opening new production on Nintendo's part, so I think the Switch would have to prove itself to be a big hit before they might happen.

Honestly what I think they might do before they start producing any variants is start selling official Nintendo USB-C powerbanks to extend its battery life and maybe a special charger that allows you to charge the thing while in kickstand mode.

[Sean Mirrsen]

I imagine that if they ditch the HD Rumble and replace it with ordinary rumble thing without sacrificing anything else, it'd be a whole hell of a lot cheaper to make. HD rumble modules aren't something available off-the-shelf to my knowledge so they probably have to manufacture them. Cut that bit out and you've got mostly off-the-shelf components.

HD Rumble is a slightly custom LRA. You can probably buy LRAs retail for like $5. The bulk cost for Nintendo is far less. So you're not going to see much price decrease, especially if you just replace the LRA module with a much more mechanically complex offset-mass brushless motor of similar size, that has to draw more power to create anything close to the same vibration strength.

They have much more going on with custom analog sticks, ludicrous precision motion-sensors, and a fairly beefy battery in each of them. Plus it's one of their core distinguishing features. They have zero incentive for dropping the tech.

The only way to cut the cost of the Switch is to make a dedicated portable variant that always has the joycons attached, and is slightly smaller overall (because no more rails/extra buttons/interfaces/extra sensors, so more space for a batteries), shipping with just a charger instead of the dock set. It's the only variant I ever see Nintendo making, honestly, because it's the only variant that remains tentatively compatible with the Switch paradigm - you'd still be able to dock it, use external controllers with it, stand it up on a table, use the touchscreen, etc, so all games will be compatible with it, unlike a dedicated stationary variant people keep proposing.

[Krevsin]

from the teardowns I've seen, the rumble unit in the joycon looks to be a much beefier LRA than I normally see so I doubt it's as cheap as all that.

[Akura]

Tried to buy a Switch at GameStop. Sold out, but they wanted me to put down on a $600 bundle order for one. ...Yeaaahno.

Probably should have pre-ordered.

EDIT: And going to Nintendo's website to order one myself only sends me to six different retailers, only two of whom - Amazon and Wal-Mart - have them in stock, both at jacked up prices and Amazon's is presumably pre-owned.

[Frumple]

Yeaaah, you can probably expect that for a bit. Sold out thing, anyway. Apparently sales have been going quite well, and I think it's been noticed N is doing their normal thing regarding release scarcity.

[sambojin]

The only way to cut the cost of the Switch is to make a dedicated portable variant that always has the joycons attached, and is slightly smaller overall (because no more rails/extra buttons/interfaces/extra sensors, so more space for a batteries), shipping with just a charger instead of the dock set. It's the only variant I ever see Nintendo making, honestly, because it's the only variant that remains tentatively compatible with the Switch paradigm - you'd still be able to dock it, use external controllers with it, stand it up on a table, use the touchscreen, etc, so all games will be compatible with it, unlike a dedicated stationary variant people keep proposing.

Nah. Scaling costs and size of technology, another miniaturization pass, branching out your supply chain to many competitors, lack of retooling costs/in-place software and licensing enabling your end to achieve bulk throughput cost benefits, even cutting retail console prices to cost or less once you're definitely onto a sure thing, can all make version 2 consoles cheaper.

The first four will probably occur at least a little within 1.5-2 years. The last may not, because Nintendo's console is in its own market segment currently (cheaper than a ps4/xbone, pricier than a NESnew or generic television plugin), so there's nothing to actually compete with to give a reason to drive costs down.

I think they'll be able to make it cheaper on their end, especially when many things can be considered "not risky" after version 1's success. Also, many suppliers will consider the core building blocks of the Switch marketable at a lower price if they believe there's a 2-8 million piece market for them, which may drive component price competition. But I doubt it will translate into a noticeably different price point for the end consumer. Or rather, they'll throw in a free game that has already sold millions of copies as the price offset point, and maybe drop $20 off the retail so it fits neatly into xmas/holiday/whatever specials lineups ($279 instead of $299 or so, mostly so it looks WAY cheaper than other consoles psychologically).



Not to say that they couldn't make an entirely portable version, but the dock (essentially a couple of usb's, some charging circuitry, a hdmi out, and some cheap plastic moulding) and the snap-off joycons (more cheap plastic moulding, most of which you need anyway) really isn't where you can drive costs down. It'd save on weight and bulk a little for shipping costs, a tiny bit on components and materials, but only slightly considering those parts of the design work are already done. And selling replacement joycons for $80 is a huge profit margin anyway, so you want them to be able to be detached (if you're Nintendo, anyway)

[alway]

Yeaaah, you can probably expect that for a bit. Sold out thing, anyway. Apparently sales have been going quite well, and I think it's been noticed N is doing their normal thing regarding release scarcity.

'Quite well' is a bit of an understatement here. It apparently sold faster than any other nintendo console, including the Wii. http://www.polygon.com/2017/3/6/14837026/nintendo-switch-sales-record-zelda-breath-of-the-wild

Tried to buy a Switch at GameStop. Sold out, but they wanted me to put down on a $600 bundle order for one. ...Yeaaahno.

Probably should have pre-ordered.

EDIT: And going to Nintendo's website to order one myself only sends me to six different retailers, only two of whom - Amazon and Wal-Mart - have them in stock, both at jacked up prices and Amazon's is presumably pre-owned.

And yeah, they've been sold out since pretty much the first day. Walmart's stock with jacked up prices are also pre-owned, they just make the third party seller more obfuscated on their pages than Amazon. The gamestop bundle is currently the only first-party seller I'm aware of that you can even pre-order; and those are simply listed as shipping 'some time before late april.'

[Leafsnail]

Whatever problems the Switch may have, it can still play Breath of the Wild on the go. It's gotta be one of the strongest launch title in history - not only has it been released to near universal acclaim, it's also attached to one of the most valuable brands in gaming.

[Neonivek]

Just goes to show how absolutely vital system sellers are... Hear that PS VITA?

[Frumple]

Actually just had the thought of kinda' wondering how botw being a launch title is going to effect what comes after. Like, launch titles tend to set a standard or a bar to be surpassed, and, uh. Breath of the Wild is probably one of the best games in gaming history. If other releases can't meet that standard (and if they do I'm going to be both hella' surprised and openly claiming that nintendo just took complete dominance over the console market), is there going to be a net negative response?

[Neonivek]

It would if the Switch sold badly (what happened to the VITA for so long... though I hear the VITA eventually recovered)

As companies would be forced to spend a LOT of money on a system that isn't selling that well meaning they would have to make AMAZING sales.

As for being one of the best games ever made... I dunno... give it a few months and then people's REAL opinions will come out. You would be surprised what "best games ever!" suddenly become shlock because people cooled... or what mediocre games become amazing because the noobs left and the only people who stayed were the ones who really dived in to dig the gems from its gameplay.

[sambojin]

Honestly, it doesn't seem "that good". I mean, it's good, and one of the better launch titles, but it has many flaws.

It's good for a Nintendo game. It's even good as a Zelda game.

It's certainly not *that* good. It looks ok'ish. Kinda fun. But if you were to put the interface, the combat, the story, the graphics, the questing, the basic mechanics of it, damn near anything included in it up to any other *good* thing in the cold, dark, harsh light of reality, you go "Yeah, it was a pretty good game. A great launch title. Not revolutionary in any way, but done pretty well. Had some nice stuff and puzzles, and some pretty stupid or annoying stuff. Wasn't bad."
Nice, but not exactly replayable, or even that amazing in the playing of. Even with nostalgic heartstrings attached to it.

Saying it's "revolutionary for Nintendo" has absolutely no meaning. A good launch title? Yes. A fantastic game? Meh, it's ok, pretty good, but some of it's stupid, hackneyed, laborious or ripped-off, and the graphics and gameplay aren't that great.

[Frumple]

Probably off topic, and it's late enough I probably wouldn't engage if I was more awake, but whatever. Can take a tl;dr as being I'd disagree pretty hard, and I'm not exactly an uncritical or inexperienced gamer.

Spoiler: BotW stuff, ignore as you please (click to show/hide)

Eh. If it's not that good, just about everything I've seen in the last two or three decades is pretty much outright shit. Zero doubt it's the best put together open world game I've played or watched played, and even going beyond open world stuff better than a ridiculous amount of material I've encountered over the years. At this point I'm even rating it higher than any of the elder scrolls games, on the net. Have to be using a really odd metric to consider it anything but damn beautiful, too... some of the textures or whatever aren't amazing but the aesthetics are some of the best I've seen, especially considering the sheer amount of ground the game covers.

Replayability is something of an open question, though. On one hand, I've been consistently watching different people approach the same part of the game and do it differently. You can easily get a difference experience during subsequent runs and discover new things about the game. On the other, the thing's freaking gigantic, and a fair amount of it stuff that most people will only try to engage with one way once they've done it once, even if there's several available. Probably depend on how thorough the person is and how interested in experimentation they. Might not get much out of a replay if you've already explored everything and you don't care much about trying new things. 'Course, if you've already explored everything, or even most of it, you've sunk multiple days of raw game time into playing, heh.

Think the most amusing thing I've noticed is that most of the stuff I've seen complained about so far as frustrating bits is caused more by player preconceptions than what the game allows for or encourages. Closest I've seen to an outright annoying puzzle one stealth sequence, and I've personally watched more than 2/3rds of the shrines, over a tenth of the koroks, most of the dungeon stuff, and a passel of other junk, too. Fair few are fairly uncomplicated, but very few stupid or annoying unless the player's actively making them so. It's actually more than a little impressive that the quality manages to avoid dipping as little as it does given the raw numbers of the things.