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[FantasticDorf]

Based on this tweet by bay 12 games

This suggestion concerns a additional set of goals to entities with high [KNOWLEDGE] values. Thier objectives in the world would be to either preserve or get hold of a large quantity of books and keep them within a place that they own. For example, a human with the utmost values in knowledge would be very fufilled and boastworthy about achieving their dreams of having a legendary library in reputation with so many high quality or legendary books and a good source of work for doing a bit of artifact hunting, if they hadn't got everything that exists already.

Some suggested lifegoal types related to knowledge

> Preserve 'all the knowledge' in the world - Collect 'breakthrough' books or a large quantity of topics, originals or high quality scribed copies and store these books on site.

> Collect a 'legendary' book collection - Collect a LOT of high quality books of across whatever genre, originals or high quality scribes and store them in site, this would be achieved by having a library or personal holding. Once the threshold is met your library will have its status upgraded and become world famous. (As well as materially desirable)

> "Propagate the dark arts" - A post necromancer changing life goal, your intention no longer becomes to be immortal (this applies to worldgen people) but to preserve your craft and write a hefty (or steal from existing necromancers) quantity of books dictating your work and store them in a singular place. In many respects your own lifespan becomes a secondary objective, since you'll live on. This changing field could help define future magic book hoarding tendencies after first having life goals to pursue magic.

> "Collect the World's Voice" - Collect and/or scribe threshold of quality copies of all of the world's poems & songs (or just your entity if its easier, but tagging along with goblin bards to learn a few limericks despite being the enemy could be fun) and songs and store them in a site owned library, a objective for artistically inclined knowledge hoarders. New songs are being generated all the time but you could hunt for all the accolades from a period, going through the rubble of dead civilizations to find their culture and spread knowledge of their songs even after they are long gone or learn it through individuals.

A small collection of thoughts, feedback would be appreciated.

[Deboche]

Great idea. Two more good ones would be understanding the nature of reality and what constitutes a good life.

[FantasticDorf]

Great idea. Two more good ones would be understanding the nature of reality and what constitutes a good life.

Im intrigued. All of my own suggestions have some kind of practical goal, how would  you define those two aims? They seem rather abstract (though many life goals need elaboration/content consistent conditions as they are)

Heh, I just thought of another, for some reason it gives me Sunless Sea, port report vibes, running back and forth getting paid for giving updated information, which over the course of progressive time in weeks/years changes as world gen just plays out.

> "Charter the Realm" - (somewhat related to power goals, conquest/monarch goals etc - Think a domesdaybook) accumulate a list on quires/copied of all the settlements you own, which then can be bound into a celebratory legendary consensus book for that year.


Side suggestion here on the topic of 'port reports', collecting a book as to a guide or a general consensus of a place should dispense relevant info (based on quality and information content as coherent to which should set a archetype of informative knowledge) of everyone/everything who lives there and the rumour tied to that site from the 'invisible bulletin board' being worked on right now (as to say in a quest log a particular person could be listed, "I have only ever read about this person" - with a list of content, a mini legends log from that snapshot of time)

A dwarf monarch, or as to say a leader may want to know as much as they can about a rival civ, and therefore contact people to spy, pass that knowledge and rumours along to the leader and their nobles before making a informed decision. (Which will sort of being happening with goblin informants in the upcoming version)

[Deboche]

I was just thinking that those were the two main goals of Greek philosophers and maybe all philosophers.

I also thought that your goals were a bit open-ended. Perserving all the knowledge of the world is pretty much impossible. Think about a life goal of reading all books that exist. More books are published in one day than you can read in one day, same thing for movies.

Life goals - both in DF and in life - should never really be complete. Having a great family, for example, just means you'll be caring for your relatives for your whole life. A family is never a finished work.

I'd also like to add another one, aesthetics. Essentially it's all the work done in philosophy about art and beauty. That way the 3 big ones of philosophy are covered - the good, the true and the beautiful.

[FantasticDorf]

I was just thinking that those were the two main goals of Greek philosophers and maybe all philosophers.

I also thought that your goals were a bit open-ended. Perserving all the knowledge of the world is pretty much impossible. Think about a life goal of reading all books that exist. More books are published in one day than you can read in one day, same thing for movies.

Life goals - both in DF and in life - should never really be complete. Having a great family, for example, just means you'll be caring for your relatives for your whole life. A family is never a finished work.

Not quite precise, its just a fine line between practical and impractical life goals. In game terms life goals can be very straightfoward for goal setting, as you are only required once to make a object in a strange mood to fufill your life goal. Many literary works in the DF world are not written out in rapid succession so there is a key time to collect articles, and it prolongs the journey rather than making it a quick hunt. Additionally adventure mode, (to which the basis of a lot of artifact hunting will be based) also takes place in slower time.

Only a 'snapshot' is required, your interpretation is quite literal. Collect relevant field of books = checks with world, if you have the recommended fields and its stored in the right conditions with nothing else out there = Life goal done even if a book is written in the tick after (leading to civilisation level scales of dissapointment in '1 turn till wonder construction failure'). I guess life goals mean different things to different people, life goals to myself are practical ambitions, whilst to you there are more abstract moralistic standing.

[Deboche]

Only a 'snapshot' is required, your interpretation is quite literal. Collect relevant field of books = checks with world, if you have the recommended fields and its stored in the right conditions with nothing else out there = Life goal done even if a book is written in the tick after (leading to civilisation level scales of dissapointment in '1 turn till wonder construction failure'). I guess life goals mean different things to different people, life goals to myself are practical ambitions, whilst to you there are more abstract moralistic standing.

In very practical terms, what if your adventurer goes to a place where a great writer lives to collect his works, then goes to a distant place to visit another great writer. While he is away from one writer, he'll constantly be writing more books. It's by definition an impossible task.

Same goes for a legendary book collection. Why would someone so obsessed with collecting books ever decide that they're done?

I don't think I see it in abstract moralistic terms. If anything, the goals in DF are pretty gamey and simplistic. If someone dreams of creating a masterpiece, they shouldn't settle for the serially made masterpieces that get made in DF, it should be about a body of work.

[FantasticDorf]

When i say books i mean books of a good quality (which often means being a dab hand at scribing copies yourself), and often acclaimed authors will scribe out the same book in their spare time, your timespan is exaggerated in firing off books as soon as they released.

As to the great library, it's a rational achievement that for even one moment of time your current existing collection is complete but maintaining and accepting new entries into that library is always welcome. 'Snapshot of Time' goals. The future is irrelevant, as its taken for fact that you have completed your current collection of books in the here and now harking back to the past signalling a milestone you can look back on even if its overshadowed.

Also its a bit nonsensical to be constantly in limbo over new books being completed and slipping in and out of neurotic joy and distress over summarily losing and attaining your life goal.

Fulltime scholars spend a lot of time copying and refining thier work would you believe it. 500 years in it'll be nearly impossible (all the more impressive if you do it and there aren't too many/mysteriously being murdered scholars in the world) as you state but its always a admirable goal towards the mid-early game when there is a healthy supply of valuable books before it all becomes a bit bloated as every cheesemaker and their uncle picks up paper and quill to write trash.