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Author Topic: idiot mode  (Read 2240 times)

a_dumb_dwarf

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idiot mode
« on: November 24, 2016, 02:49:20 am »

this mode turns off AI patches
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Henry47

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Re: idiot mode
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2016, 03:19:09 am »

what AI patches?
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a_dumb_dwarf

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Re: idiot mode
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2016, 12:10:21 pm »

what AI patches?

the updates that make the dwarf smarter
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Starver

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Re: idiot mode
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2016, 12:42:40 pm »

Ah, from the title, it looked like you were asking for a switch so that even an idiot could successfully play DF...  ;)
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Deboche

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Re: idiot mode
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2016, 01:51:04 pm »

Not a bad idea but wouldn't it be way easier to code all new idiot behaviour? Maybe dwarf intelligence could work as a dificulty slider.
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Henry47

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Re: idiot mode
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2016, 10:34:55 am »

A wise idea. While in some respects dwarfs are still complete idiots, in others they are far too clever. Of course which is which is subjective, which is why a slider would indeed by useful, if probably a bit impractical to implement.
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Dozebôm Lolumzalìs

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Re: idiot mode
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2016, 05:31:59 pm »

Dwarves are not, and have never been, artificial intelligences. To be an artificial intelligence, it is necessary (though not sufficient) to pass the Turing Test, or to be capable of such.
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Quote from: King James Programming
...Simplification leaves us with the black extra-cosmic gulfs it throws open before our frenzied eyes...
Quote from: Salvané Descocrates
The only difference between me and a fool is that I know that I know only that I think, therefore I am.
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Starver

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Re: idiot mode
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2016, 07:36:31 pm »

I think the intention is actually to tone down the Random Stupidity That Looks Like A Bit Like Free Will.

The dwarves aren't automata, with their tendency to wander away from Overseer jobs to deal with their own needs seemingly without reason, and while Battlefield Sock Collection is something that can (and, by default, currently is) turned off through a combination of job options (forbid items on death, etc) the way that a job confidently assigned to a dwarf can be so easily usurped by need-fulfillments of various kinds (thirst, hunger, socialising, complaining, frightening things, baby-finding, wardrobe decisions...) makes for each dwarf being a little nub of Brownian Motion in the often rarified atmosphere of job-fulfillment.


Or so I interpret OP's request. Except that without fulfilling food and drink needs, you get problems, leaking into the mental needs just like many of the others. So maybe either I'm overthinking what I think OP wants, or OP hasn't realised what is being asked here. Maybe both.  More input would be good.
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a_dumb_dwarf

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Re: idiot mode
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2016, 04:05:09 am »

I think the intention is actually to tone down the Random Stupidity That Looks Like A Bit Like Free Will.

The dwarves aren't automata, with their tendency to wander away from Overseer jobs to deal with their own needs seemingly without reason, and while Battlefield Sock Collection is something that can (and, by default, currently is) turned off through a combination of job options (forbid items on death, etc) the way that a job confidently assigned to a dwarf can be so easily usurped by need-fulfillments of various kinds (thirst, hunger, socialising, complaining, frightening things, baby-finding, wardrobe decisions...) makes for each dwarf being a little nub of Brownian Motion in the often rarified atmosphere of job-fulfillment.


Or so I interpret OP's request. Except that without fulfilling food and drink needs, you get problems, leaking into the mental needs just like many of the others. So maybe either I'm overthinking what I think OP wants, or OP hasn't realised what is being asked here. Maybe both.  More input would be good.

patches for important stuff, like needing to eat and drink, would still be in affect during idiot mode
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Libash_Thunderhead

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Re: idiot mode
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2016, 05:44:37 pm »

Actually, I want an idiot mode that you don't need to play, just watch.
:p
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Henry47

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Re: idiot mode
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2016, 01:42:05 am »

Just let it run then, things tend to go to custard before to long if you do that, or they have for me anyway.
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Dozebôm Lolumzalìs

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Re: idiot mode
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2016, 02:19:09 pm »

Isn't there a DF-playing bot available somewhere for a slightly-older version? I think it butchered a few bards or something... !!fun enough for me!
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Quote from: King James Programming
...Simplification leaves us with the black extra-cosmic gulfs it throws open before our frenzied eyes...
Quote from: Salvané Descocrates
The only difference between me and a fool is that I know that I know only that I think, therefore I am.
Sigtext!

Dirst

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Re: idiot mode
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2016, 03:39:27 pm »

Dwarves are not, and have never been, artificial intelligences. To be an artificial intelligence, it is necessary (though not sufficient) to pass the Turing Test, or to be capable of such.
That's setting the bar way too high just to use the term AI.  The core principle of AI is to rationally parse the environment to make decisions that maximize the probability of "success."  Videogame characters can definitely do that without coming close to passing a Turing Test.

Note that older games' opponents were definitely not intelligent.  For example, the ghosts in PacMan were navigating to specific places relative to the player's position.  That gave the illusion that they were trying to corner the player.

In general, anything called AI is fairly bad at what it does.  That's because once AI gets good at something, for example optical character recognition, we stop calling it AI.

As for the OP, the dorfs' various needs are more or less in the game to stay, which means they need ways to fulfill those needs.  What would be sliderable is the relative strength of personal needs vs. assigned tasks.  Push it too far toward assigned tasks, and you run a real risk of your dorfs waiting until it's too late to prevent insanity.
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Just got back, updating:
(0.42 & 0.43) The Earth Strikes Back! v2.15 - Pay attention...  It's a mine!  It's-a not yours!
(0.42 & 0.43) Appearance Tweaks v1.03 - Tease those hippies about their pointy ears.
(0.42 & 0.43) Accessibility Utility v1.04 - Console tools to navigate the map

Starver

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Re: idiot mode
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2016, 04:45:21 pm »

and you run a real risk of your dorfs waiting until it's too late to prevent insanity.
If I'm reading my psychiatrist's upside-down notes correctly, it's too late. I'm certifiable, and there's nothing at all my dorfs can do about it now.
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Dirst

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Re: idiot mode
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2016, 05:07:03 pm »

and you run a real risk of your dorfs waiting until it's too late to prevent insanity.
If I'm reading my psychiatrist's upside-down notes correctly, it's too late. I'm certifiable, and there's nothing at all my dorfs can do about it now.
I meant the dorfs' insanity.  A dorf that faithfully does everything she's told and goes insane, or one that stays sane but never gets around to doing her job, have the same negative impact on the player's sanity.
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Just got back, updating:
(0.42 & 0.43) The Earth Strikes Back! v2.15 - Pay attention...  It's a mine!  It's-a not yours!
(0.42 & 0.43) Appearance Tweaks v1.03 - Tease those hippies about their pointy ears.
(0.42 & 0.43) Accessibility Utility v1.04 - Console tools to navigate the map
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