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[xDarkz]

Hi guys.

I recently ran into a DnD players manual book at a local comic book store and figured I would buy it for a good read cause it looked interesting. I had always been interested in DnD but when I grew up, the game was in a lull and heavily stigmatized so I could never find any friends to teach or learn it with me.

Skimming through the book now that I've got some extra time on my hands makes me really regret not getting into it. My friend says he's willing to teach me but it won't be for weeks. I went ahead and signed myself up for Roll20 and I'm taken back by how many people play DnD online. It's awesome.

Saying that though, I'm scared to jump right into it. I don't know the first thing about DnD aside from what I've slowly been reading and I don't want to bog down the campaign or the DM with questions.

Do we have a group on here already playing DnD and willing to add a complete newbie into their group? If not, would appreciate tips!

[Harry Baldman]

If you're all right with playing Pathfinder (it's basically 3.5, but made a little easier to work with and with most of its material available online at its SRD) I'm in a game called Haeum Sung that might be in need of players soon. We plan to have a game next week on Saturday. We also play via text, which is easier to arrange and doesn't need anything more than Mythweavers and the Roll20 console.

Actually, Pathfinder games tend to be slightly more common here than regular D&D on the whole, so you might want to familiarize yourself with that regardless (but the SRD I linked isn't really the best resource to do that simply because of how much shit there is within it). If you want to experiment with making a character in it, might drop into Mystery in the City of Starlight. You'll be put in the waitlist, but considering we already helped one guy unfamiliar with Pathfinder make his character and the game looks unlikely to ever start (and if it does, you might be able to get Tawa to put you in along with the rest), might not be the worst use of your time regardless - you can hop onto Discord and bother the other players to help you out in that case.

[Retropunch]

I never really got into DnD at an early stage either - I was a probably in that same lull period, and it wasn't very popular around here regardless. I therefore really was only into pc gaming with the occasional RP session through MUDs and the like. That being said, I've got a lot of friends who play/dabble in it now, and I've played a number of times in different groups with them or in places I've visited.

A few observations/things to be aware of though:
- It's all about the group: I played with one group of friends and hated it, and then with another group of friends and loved it. All of them were friends, but certain ones just work better and are more to your style. This is mainly to do with DM style.

- Try not to play with a heavy RP group on your first go; it's easier to just work off the rules whilst you're learning. Many people disagree, but one of the hardest things for people to do is RP effectively (so it's fun for them and everyone else) - having a rule heavy game is a bit more like PC gaming, and stops you worrying about stuff. Having the DM shut you down time after time because it doesn't fit can be disheartening.

- If you've got a medium to big group, see if you can arrange (before hand) for someone to be your mentor/helper. Get the DM to allow some OC whispering between you.

- Lastly, see if you can join in a game as a one off character. I still do this occasionally as I travel a lot, and it's great fun. You set up a character, join in for a part of an adventure and don't have to worry about character development, inventories and all that. You basically follow along, do a bit of fighting and make what can be a slightly humdrum adventure a bit memorable. As you don't have anything on the line, you're not worried about making a mess of things (dying horribly is the norm in this role) and you'll be able to get by with a very small amount of skills - my last character only knew three spells for instance.

Most DMs will help you along if it's your first time - you'll get slightly fewer bad things happen to you, and you'll get a few free passes on things like spot checks where an experienced player may not. If it doesn't go well it is probably the group! - don't get put off if it doesn't work out well.

[MrRoboto75]

You could try creating characters.  The player's handbooks are generally ordered in such a way that you can go through the chapters in order to make a 1st level character.  Use an online dice roller or a similar phone app if you have to.

Generally 90% of DnD stuff in game involves rolling a twenty sider and adding something to it.  There's a target number you need to exceed to be successful.

[nenjin]

Generally 90% of DnD stuff in game involves rolling a twenty sider and adding something to it.  There's a target number you need to exceed to be successful.

To me, that's 20% of D&D.

What it's really about is roleplaying. That can mean a lot of things. But to me it generally means....

-Playing a character, with their own motivations specific to who they are. Rather than just playing yourself every time.
-Thinking about situations from your character's perspective. (What does my goodly paladin think about this versus my self-serving thief?)
-Learning to ask questions about your environment so you can make informed decisions. This is something I commonly see new roleplayers not understand.
-Formulating a plan or response to the situation you've been presented. If you're in a barfight, it behooves you to ask questions like "How many guys are there?", "Are any of them armed?", "Are any of them especially big?", "Where is the nearest exit?", "Do any of them look like a wizard?" Getting all the details of the scene and then working out a plan or strategy is what roleplaying is all about.

As an aside to the first point, lots of people coming to roleplaying games for the first time think it's like a video game. Where you're "you", wearing this skin and you're there to kill the monster and get the loot. And that does a big disservice to actual roleplay. Think of playing a character sort of like creating artificial restraints for yourself. If you're playing a self-serving thief who only cares about gold and winning, most situations will be approached the same way: to win. But if you're playing say a Lawful Good Paladin or Cleric, you've got a set of morals and principles which mean you approach different situations differently. So while you might slay that Goblin that jumps out of the bushes without a second thought, you might NOT slay a poor beggar with a stick who is just so desperate for food they're willing to waylay people on the street.

Mechanics are easy, in the end. It's just memorization and repetition until you internalize the rules. The real joy of roleplaying is actually playing a character, having it interact with the GMs world and ending up with a narrative that came about because of the character you chose to play, and how you chose to play them.

For example, if you generally consider yourself a "nice" person in real life.....it can be a lot of fun to play a truly evil bastard because it requires you to think and act in a way that YOU, the player, would not normally act.

Most new players just focus on "min/maxing" so they can be as effective in combat as possible, because it's a simple goal to shoot for and it's what most people think of when they think roleplaying games. And they let the actual roleplaying happen if and when it will. But do that long enough and you eventually get bored, because you end up making the same character game after game, because your only goal is to win in combat. Eventually you realize the only dynamic thing you can really do in roleplaying games is roleplay different kinds of characters, because at the end of the day it produces more varied situations and narratives than "I hit him with my +5 Longsword/+5 Axe/+5 Spear/Fireball/Lightning Bolt/Power Word Kill/etc...."

[Retropunch]

-snip-

All that is spot on, however I'd add to that my earlier advice on finding a not-too-RPing game for your first time. Yeah, DnD is at it's most fun when you ARE a character that you're not - I've seen better character internalisation in DnD sessions than I've ever seen on the stage or film; a tiny, shy 5 foot girl pretending to be a hulking Barbarian warlord AND PULLING IT OFF COMPLETELY is something that you just will never, ever find elsewhere.

That being said, my first few times I got that same advice about going all in with the RP, and I ended up struggling because I was trying to heavily RP as well as learn the rules/gameplay. The DM has to keep it coherent and fair, so whilst from an RP standpoint I wanted to do x, I didn't realise it'd break things for other people/the story down the line. They therefore had to stop (or kindly sort of divert) whatever it was I wanted to do (which was heavily compounded on by my more mechanical gameplay mistakes) and that really stopped me enjoying it properly. It's like any PC multiplayer game - if you're getting tripped up on the mechanics you can't really enjoy it much.

I'd say get some experience playing things as close to what you're comfortable RP wise for your first games and concentrate on getting the mechanics down, play a few heavy RP bit parts in others, and then merge them together when you're happy. You'll also quickly find that what you think is fun to RP can end up not being after you understand how DnD works - a lot of people start off choosing a character which is fun for solo play rather than team play.

Lastly, remember that a standard human fighter can quickly gain hidden depths if it gets a bit boring to RP them that way.

[Xgamer4]

That being said, my first few times I got that same advice about going all in with the RP, and I ended up struggling because I was trying to heavily RP as well as learn the rules/gameplay. The DM has to keep it coherent and fair, so whilst from an RP standpoint I wanted to do x, I didn't realise it'd break things for other people/the story down the line. ...

It should be noted that this is just one way things can go... I generally GM, and as GM, my policy is that whatever the players do, assuming it's reasonable, is what happens. There's no "well... that's not really fair...". If someone says they do that, then they either succeed or roll for it, and it if changes things, that's on me.

Consequently, I run sessions heavily improv, and generally play systems that encourage a narrative focus (generally Apocalypse Engine/PbtA systems) and less DnD/Pathfinder.

[Retropunch]

That being said, my first few times I got that same advice about going all in with the RP, and I ended up struggling because I was trying to heavily RP as well as learn the rules/gameplay. The DM has to keep it coherent and fair, so whilst from an RP standpoint I wanted to do x, I didn't realise it'd break things for other people/the story down the line. ...

It should be noted that this is just one way things can go... I generally GM, and as GM, my policy is that whatever the players do, assuming it's reasonable, is what happens. There's no "well... that's not really fair...". If someone says they do that, then they either succeed or roll for it, and it if changes things, that's on me.

Consequently, I run sessions heavily improv, and generally play systems that encourage a narrative focus (generally Apocalypse Engine/PbtA systems) and less DnD/Pathfinder.

Definitely. It was less that I got a "ahh...you can't really do that..." but rather that my actions just weren't working out properly or the DM/other players were obviously having to step over my actions. It's something you can quickly feel, and you end up feeling like you're being a bit of a drag (especially if you're making mechanical mistakes too). It's quickly overcome, but I think trying to play a complex character on your first outing is a common problem, and can be off putting.

I was playing pretty much straight DnD though, and as you say; other systems are a lot more flexible. Just with xDarkz wanting to know about DnD specifically I thought I'd treat it as if they were playing by the book.

[nenjin]

More I'm just trying to emphasize interacting with the world as much if not more so than interacting with the rules. We just recently got a new player "up to speed" but he still doesn't fully understand the world as a construct to play with, question and manipulate....and he's also bad at even trying to remember the rules. As a result he's often a wallflower and gets crippled by indecision a lot. He compensates by having a loose and rather bro-y character that will just obstinately, loudly stick to his guns without really trying to dig into whatever is going on.

So....don't be that guy.

As a GM, I will forgive a ton of newness and rules ignorance as long as someone plays an interesting character in an interesting way, that creates more plot hooks and moments for me to use.

What I generally don't need though, is another wallflower who doesn't know anything, do anything, or say anything and contributes nothing to the game except extra dice in combat at the cost of having to explain every rule to them at table. And/or who thinks that dick and fart jokes are a substitute for having an interesting character idea.

Which is why I make the comparison to video games, where you're playing a garden variety RPG made by total strangers to you. Naming your character Dick FartsMcgee to take the piss out of their grand fantasy opera storyline is all well and good. At table though that's a real person who put in real effort to tell a story, and treating their world like it's just a video game for you to trash and laugh at while you roll some dice and crack some jokes doesn't make you very popular with them. Maybe with some GMs, but most GMs who have put in the time have a finite tolerance for those sorts of players.

[Mithras]

A thing often taken for granted in roleplaying games is that everyone is responsible for everyone else's fun. In practical terms this means a few things for a new player.

Remember this when you are playing. When you're about to do something ask if it fits with the way the group seems like they want to do something, are the group trying to use diplomacy on a challenge? Them think twice before starting to hit things with a chair because it's 'what your character would do'. Vice versa if the group seem like the sort that wants to fight everything, trying diplomacy in a situation will probably get you nowhere if the rest of the group is treating as a combat encounter.

In terms of what to expect from a group, look for one that is clear about what it does, that has a consistent idea of what they like and for these to match with what you expect from the game. In practice try to talk to two players from the group separately and then together, look for good signs such as players remembering and being excited by the actions of other players, a basic agreement on what a few of the fun bits were, a respect for their DM, minimal stories of single characters doing things alone (while this can be cool, for practical reasons 1 player doing something for an extended period of time often means the rest are left watching for that time) and generally your feeling that what these people find interesting is what you find interesting.

It's still very hard to know what a group is going to be like in play as people are often quite bad at conceiving and communicating what they like. So try games, some of them won't be your jam, don't worry. Table Top Roleplaying (and even DnD) is not one monolithic thing, just look at the thread above. People play the same game different ways. This means that a much as I advised you to start by playing generally the same game as the group also remember that if what the group is playing isn't what you want to play then there's another group out there that is closer to what you want to play.

Why are you looking for respect towards DMs? Because as a rule of thumb, DMs who are respected also respect their players this is not always true but good enough for a rough guide. You're looking for a DM who isn't trying to enforce their will on their players mainly. The best way to establish this pre-game is to look at the stories you've heard about the game and the DM in general, does it look like the actions of the players surprised the DM at any time? If so Do the results seem fair? Warning signs include the GM shutting down too many ideas that seem cool but were unexpected, discovering that one of the awesome people you heard about turns out to have been an NPC or situations that seemed to have been made artificially complicated or were choices were artificially constrained (in general the answer to the question "why didn't you do x?" should be something along the line of, we didn't think of it or we thought about it but decided that y was better for these reasons rather than it being stepped on by the DM.)

Right I've babbled enough, if it was tldr then remember one thing, my view of what makes a good game is coloured, people play the game in different ways, find people who do it in ways you find interesting. Therefore you should try things, don't be afraid to bow out if you're not having fun, don't be afraid to try new things you don't know if you'll like. The more you play the more you will know what you like, the more you'll be able to communicate this to others and end up playing games that you like.

Oh and have fun! Roleplaying is fun.

[wierd]

There's a great potential for abuse in the "interesting character" demographic.

I have read the "Green text" archive. I have seen it.


To me, the major offenders in Pen and paper games are these folks:

Pervert Bard. (Wants to spend the ENTIRE GAME SESSION in the tavern, hitting on the bar maid-- OR, plays as a female elf sorceress, and goes on and on about bra sizes/tries to seduce monsters NON STOP.)

Poindexter McRulebasher. (Can be any class, or alignment. Ruins all fun, makes the GM angry by rule bashing, gets huffy when rules are relaxed even for the sake of story, is generally intolerable.)

Lawful Good Paladin of Terror (upgraded version of Poindexter McRulebasher. Carries a -10 axe of malign gameplay aura. INSISTS that all party members MUST be lawful good, even when this is HORRIBLE for the story, and IMPOSSIBLE for certain character classes.)

Shyster Thief McPlayerKiller (Typically chaotic evil, this character tends to BOGART EVERYTHING, EVEN WHEN THEY CANNOT USE THE ITEM, refuses to work with other players, insists that part of the character's ethos is being as kleptomaniacal as inhumanly possible, and refuses to see reason that a party of adventurers would never recruit such a person for a thief role. Tends to purposefully engage in risky behavior, like shooting crossbows/arrows/throwing knives at monsters with player characters nearby, and finding collateral damage from failed throws funny. All around unpleasant to play with.)

RageQuit Warrior (Gets really pissed when their tank has a spectacular fail and gets 1hit KOed-- Throws the table over, and storms out.)


If you understand that a band of adventurers works as a team, and know how to work in a team with your character's unique attributes to progress the story, you are basically golden, and the GM will work with you. That's been my experience.

[nenjin]

You can basically sum up the problem character with "Monopolizes the GMs time." Whether that's making them come up with stuff when they want to ransack every scene, or pursuing personal storyline stuff that may or may not be to anyone else's taste, to stirring up trouble in the party or derailing the adventure and making the GM scramble to put it back together, yeah, being an "active player" has it's risks. I think I'd still prefer someone who does one or several of the above moderately, versus players who can't seem to get engaged with the adventure and the world.

[wierd]

I like to play cooperatively with the DM, when one of the above is playing and causing a problem. Pervert bard is my favorite to screw with like this, as I typically play as a glass-cannon wizard.  I will subtly suggest to the DM that I can lace the bard's drink with a potion of gender change, get him hammered, and send him on a hot date with the orc blacksmith, then force him to go on the adventure to get cured. (We do all the necessary success/failure throws to see if my diabolical scheme succeeds or not, then proceed accordingly.)

I'm not a wallflower, but I DO understand the necessity to you know, ACTUALLY GO on the adventure.

[Aoi]

I actually ended up in an RP-based game based on D&D where everybody had a seriously annoying character/personality trait that was not evident until the adventure actually started. And the main point was to actually find some way to deal with it without getting anybody killed in the process. Having said that, we went into this intentionally, so Guy Who Would Try To Sacrifice Us Every Night To His Dark God and Guy Who Tried To Avoid Killing Anything were viewed more as technical challenges, then anything...

[Mithras]

Yeah, most of those archetypes aren't necessarily bad, they just don't fit into many groups and game styles. I'm currently playing a non DnD game where people are deliberately making their life difficult, we have an over emotional pacifist who just fell in love with the guy we were supposed to hunt down and kill, a thief type who isn't too keen on working with the party and would rather be working with a bunch of other organizations instead of what the party wants, a violent psychopath and I'm playing a hypocritical meathead whose antics include murdering the first character's trusted retainer because she knew too much.

In any other game, with any other group of people this would have been terrible. That said none of us really decided to do this, it just grew out of the group dynamic and before we knew it we were enjoying the pathos and roleplay caused by one of the party members refusing to go on a mission (as a result it failed horribly and my character was captured, the pacifist had to go to an assumed enemy to help get me freed, then we told her my character had killed her retainer) and such things. Of course, there are lines we do not cross, we don't make other PCs unplayable, we don't betray our goals, we just see them in different ways.

The point is, find out how the group plays, try to tease out the unwritten rules. Play that way for a while, and if it's not for you (I'm sure the above sounds awful to most people, I and the people I play with find it compelling but I'm not going to force you to play my way) then that's cool, move on to something else. If it is for you, well keep trying new games anyway, you can like more than one type of game.