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[Nilbert]

In a related note. I have a tundra volcano that is starting to have its hillsides turn green. There is so much vomit everywhere, that I can track major traffic routes by the green.

Follow the green brick road?

[mikekchar]

Broken bolts, I have no solution for, unfortunately.  For the tavern, what if you built down, in relief instead of up?  Let's say you want a wooden tavern.  Tunnel down one layer (*not* channel!) and dig out an area.  Build wooden walls, and floors and then channel everything around the tavern away, leaving the tavern with a sod roof.  The inside would be "inside" if you know what I mean.  Also, it follows the dwarven style of a drinking hillock.

I also wonder, if you dig down one level, build a wooden floor.  Then dig down another level and hollow it out, building wooden walls.  Then channel away the top level of dirt... Will the inside become "outside"?  I don't think so, because it has never been exposed to the outside.  Also, after you channel away the surrounding area, if it is soil it will grow plants again, or if it is rock, you can flood it to get mud.  So eventually you will have native plants and trees growing around your city.

To be honest, this would actually be nearly as fast, if not faster than building up because you never need scaffolding.  And you will build a quaint little valley in the process.  Damn... yet another thing to try...

[Nilbert]

Interesting thought Mikekchar,

I have a basement for my tavern with rooms in it, and I just checked on its status.  It is dark, inside, and subterranean except for one tile where a tree had once grown prior to the tavern being built above.  I had dug the stairs and then mined out the basement.  No vomit except for that one tile that is inside, light, and above ground where the tree had grown.  Seems what you describe will work, and I agree, would be faster.

[Werdna]

I also wonder, if you dig down one level, build a wooden floor.  Then dig down another level and hollow it out, building wooden walls.  Then channel away the top level of dirt... Will the inside become "outside"?  I don't think so, because it has never been exposed to the outside. 

You can't channel through a constructed floor and would need to deconstruct it first to channel away the dirt it was built on, which would then expose the space below.  At that point it would become Outside and Light.  Reconstructing the floor would cause the tile beneath to become Indoor and Light. 

[Bumber]

I also wonder, if you dig down one level, build a wooden floor.  Then dig down another level and hollow it out, building wooden walls.  Then channel away the top level of dirt... Will the inside become "outside"?  I don't think so, because it has never been exposed to the outside. 

You can't channel through a constructed floor and would need to deconstruct it first to channel away the dirt it was built on, which would then expose the space below.  At that point it would become Outside and Light.  Reconstructing the floor would cause the tile beneath to become Indoor and Light.

The dirt isn't below the floor, but on the level above.

I suspect it would still become "above ground" ("outside" isn't important), ignoring the constructed floor.

[Werdna]

Hmm, I'm having trouble visualizing it then.  When he says "if you dig down one level, build a wooden floor." are we channeling down, or digging out a layer so there's a dirt roof above?  Either way, the result at some point is a constructed floor upon a natural dirt floor, with or without a dirt roof above.  "Then dig down another level and hollow it out, building wooden walls." means that the ceiling above consists of that same dirt floor + constructed floor.  All tiles beneath that dirt floor will remain Dark.

I'm having trouble understanding what the goal is - avoiding vomit means you either need to go all-in on cave adaptation and prevent your dwarves from ever hitting an Outdoors tag, or managing their time so they spend ticks in in Outside vs Dark at more than a 1:10 ratio.  This usually means eliminating as many Dark tiles from their lives as possible, and adding an Outdoor attraction.  So I'm not sure what you mean "Outside isn't important", because it rolls back cave adaptation and also triggers the sickness checks.  "Dark" increases cave adaptation (so why try to preserve it in a building?).  Those are the only two tags that really matter in the end.

In this case, carving a fortress down, with a goal of eliminating as many 'Dark' tags as possible, you ought to channel all the way and construct the floors afterwards.  Constructing a floor onto a dirt floor ensures that the z-column of tiles beneath will remain Dark/Subterranean.

Sorry if I'm being dense and missing some other intention here.   

[Nilbert]

The goal is not only vomit removal but also gore.  Cleaning seems to be only restricted to inside, dark underground locations, which means both vomit and gore are cleaned. 

In my fort the process was to not channel but rather dig a stairway and then mine the z level below my above ground castle and houses.  Only one spot has a 'channel' but this occurred after the mining a tree grew in the middle of the building.  It left a hole once cut down.

Interesting point on eliminating vomit in terms of channeling and rebuilding the floors.  I am a bit confused on the ratio of ticks of outside vs. dark.  If every part of the fort is "light," will cave adaption occur or would you still need dwarves to go "outside" now and then?   

I'm not sure what is better/worse, gore that never gets clean anywhere in the fort or no vomit ever...

[Thisfox]

You'll still get vomit, but not from cave adaptation. I had a berserk werebeast headbutt everyone in the stomach, they puked every sodding where.

[Werdna]

Cave adaptation increases by 1 for every tick spent in a Dark tile and decreases by 10 for every tick spent outside in an Outdoor tile (according to the wiki anyway).  Vomiting and bad thoughts are triggered on entry to an Outdoor tile with cave adaptation past certain thresholds.

Therefore, a Light Indoor square does not increase nor decrease cave adaptation, nor trigger its symptoms.  A primarily 'Light' fortress effectively slows adaptation but preventing adaptation effectively boils down to that 1:10 ratio - a dwarf must spend 1 tick Outside to offset every 10 ticks in the Dark.  This balancing act obviously becomes easier the more of your fortress tiles are Light instead of Dark.

[Ironfang]

I believe that you can block out the sun if it becomes troublesome.

[Nilbert]

I believe that you can block out the sun if it becomes troublesome.

Hmmm... by pumping magma to the surface to resolve a river draining into your fort giant volcano explosion?   

[Fleeting Frames]

Sadly, smoke doesn't do that. But you can build bridges off bridges, at least as long as you never try to get the sun back.

[mikekchar]

Hmm, I'm having trouble visualizing it then.

I don't blame you.  I went back and read it and *I* couldn't understand what I meant :-)  So let's try again.

Tunnel down one layer and dig a room.  That room is underground, so it is inside.  Now channel around the outside of the room, leaving the roof and walls intact.  The room is *still* inside because nothing has changed.  We just channelled away on the outside to make a relief of a building so that it appears as if it above ground, even though it is below ground.  I'm nearly 100% sure this will work because the contents of the room have never been exposed to the outside.  However the walls and roof are made of soil, which lacks some authenticity.

Now start again.  Dig the same room, but this time build walls around the room.  The walls are still inside.  Now channel out around the room again, exposing the walls (but not the inside of the room).  Now we have a room with a soil roof and built walls.  Is the inside of the room inside or outside?  I'm relatively sure that it is inside because the inside of the room has never been exposed to the outside, and I *think* the determination of what is inside/outside is done with a projection from top down (otherwise having a door would make your fortress outside).

Now start again.  Dig the same room.  Then build a floor.  Then dig a room under the first room.  In the lower room, build walls.  Then channel away the soil over the top room (being careful not to cave it in!) and then channel around the walls.  The result will be a building with a built ceiling and built walls.  I *suspect* that the interior of this building (the lower room) will be indoors.  That's because the contents were never exposed to the outdoors.  I *suspect* that the code does not distinguish between building material, but rather sets a flag whenever a tile is exposed to the outdoors.  In this case the roof (the floor of the upper room, which is now gone) is outside, but that won't translate into the lower room.  Basically, I'm guessing how Toady implemented it.  It would be easy to check, but I haven't gotten around to it.

As to why to do it?  This will allow you to have a tavern which is "indoors" while being thematically "outdoors".  This will allow the dwarfs to clean (blood, vomit, whatever).  As long as you have 2 layers of soil, the areas you channelled away will regrow with trees and bushes and stuff, so you will never know that it wasn't just an outdoor structure built in a depression.

Edit: I tried it, and it does, indeed, work.  I planted pigtails no problem in my house.  Channelling is a gigantic PITA, though...  Very likely an easier way is to leave the soil on top and then build a floor, rather than doing the double layer.  I suspect it will work fine.

[Ironfang]

The trick to cut down on rays are to use glass bridges I think. It was an old mega-project I learned about. But a volcano makes it much easier because of the elevation.