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Poll

How should evolution be triggered?

As it currently is (randomly from greetings and combat)
- 3 (23.1%)
Only in combat (being in proximity to non allied creatures)
- 4 (30.8%)
Combat or Evolution Chamber (a free "trigger evolution" job)
- 5 (38.5%)
Only from the Evolution Chamber (including other requirements like friendship / trade)
- 1 (7.7%)

Total Members Voted: 13


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Author Topic: [47.05] Dwarvemon Mod v2.1  (Read 94523 times)

FirePhoenix11

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Re: [43.05] Dwarvemon Mod (601/802 Pokemon)
« Reply #45 on: March 30, 2017, 08:35:48 pm »

What do you mean pokemon has weird weights and sizes? It's perfectly natural for a wailord to literally be a vacuum inside.

Height can mean either that, or length depending on the Pokemon. Dunsparce for example is 1.5m which is apparently from head to tail, not underside to wing. Also as far as I know, the anime and mangas/comics tend to depict them in varying sizes too.
Here's a list of discrepancies for the anime.

But weight can pretty much be assumed, although there's no way of telling the actual volume of a Pokemon unless someone was willing to do the calculations. Especially for those made out of different materials like ice or metal.

I'm fine with sticking with the games though, since they have values I can use.
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Dwarvemon Mod (For all your Pokemon needs)

Thorjelly

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Re: [43.05] Dwarvemon Mod (601/802 Pokemon)
« Reply #46 on: March 30, 2017, 09:14:43 pm »

Sorry, not sure you saw the rest of the post, I added a lot to it almost immediately.. have a bad habit of doing that.

But that's fair enough. There are over 800 pokemon and that's a hard number to "be creative" with.

EDIT: And here I am again adding a bit more: Bouffalant is 200lbs and 5 feet tall, which makes it like, a sixth of the weight of a normal bison. But, your idea of then multiplying pokemon weights by height would make it perfect.. it probably works out for quite a lot of pokemon actually cus pokemon always seem to be massively underweighted.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 09:16:40 pm by Thorjelly »
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FirePhoenix11

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Re: [43.05] Dwarvemon Mod (601/802 Pokemon)
« Reply #47 on: March 31, 2017, 07:23:22 pm »

Sorry, not sure you saw the rest of the post, I added a lot to it almost immediately.. have a bad habit of doing that.

But that's fair enough. There are over 800 pokemon and that's a hard number to "be creative" with.

EDIT: And here I am again adding a bit more: Bouffalant is 200lbs and 5 feet tall, which makes it like, a sixth of the weight of a normal bison. But, your idea of then multiplying pokemon weights by height would make it perfect.. it probably works out for quite a lot of pokemon actually cus pokemon always seem to be massively underweighted.
Well, I've gone through and redone all the weights and have yet to test it. Its definitely made them more varied now, making Flabebe the smallest at 10 and Celesteela the biggest at about 92m. Most of the Legendary Pokemon are bigger by a few million now so maybe they will stand a better chance during world gen.
Also is there any way you could like... add more "materials" that pokemon are made out of to simulate defense, so something that has high defense is made out of a better material? If you don't already do that.

I honestly don't know how any of this works so I'm not one to give suggestions really..
Changing physical attributes could simulate stats like defense. I'll probably do that in the update after the next one since it takes quite some time to go through every Pokemon and add/change something.
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FirePhoenix11

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Re: [43.05] Dwarvemon Mod (650/802 Pokemon)
« Reply #48 on: April 01, 2017, 06:17:55 pm »

The update with the new size calculations is out, and I can confirm that its made Legendary Pokemon a bit better at surviving during world gen. I haven't seen if they actually attack now, but hopefully they should. Also, this has made a number of Pokemon more FUN and others less so. Hopefully, not by too much.

Feel free to tell of any feedback you have regarding the new sizes.
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Dwarvemon Mod (For all your Pokemon needs)

Thorjelly

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Re: [43.05] Dwarvemon Mod (650/802 Pokemon)
« Reply #49 on: April 03, 2017, 08:53:36 pm »

It looks good, and yeah, more legendaries survive worldgen. The only problem is that small pokemon seem TOO small, as an eevee and other pokemon that are at the common 1 foot size scale are half the size of a cat. But you can't really be perfect.

As an experiment, I calculated the sizes of a few pokemon using the most literal way possible: by actually opening up ripped 3D models and using their volume with a combination of the height statisitc. The method of this is: open the model. Normalize the model such that the relevant dimension makes it exactly 1 meter tall (because we can't trust the models to be to scale). Calculate the volume of this normalized model. Then, finally, multiply it by the height statistic cubed (height and volume is a cubic relationship; make the height of something twice as big, and the volume increases 8 times). THEN as a last step, I calculated the volume of a human male model, which came out as around 105,000, and divided 80,000 / 105,000 to get a around 0.75, and multiplied all my results by this figure to account for stylistic differences with how things are modeled (bit rounder, more cartoony, bigger heads, accounts for more volume).

Here's a selection of pokemon volumes with this calculation:

bulbasaur: 114,000
venusaur: 3,036,000
charmander: 21,000
charizard: 505,000
squirtle: 16,000
blastoise: 1,149,000
eevee: 4,500
mightyena: 116,000
snorlax: 2,160,000

Strikingly, Bulbasaur and Venusaur are HUGE because they take up such a lot of volume for their height. As you can see here, here are the volumes in meters^3 of the NORMALIZED models (thus not accounting for height of the pokemon in general):

bulbasaur: 0.442
venusaur: 0.506
charmander: 0.129
charizard: 0.137
squirtle: 0.171
blastoise: 0.374
eevee: 0.208
mightyena: 0.155
snorlax: 0.311
human: 0.019

As you can see, a normalized human take significanly less volume, on account of its lanky and tall features.

I guess, it's too complicated a process to go through every pokemon, but it is an interesting process for comparing... or considering that a mightyena is twice the volume of a dwarf, you might say that even the actual models themselves can't be relied on either..! (I mean, it's impossible to account for what is actual body mass and what is just fur)
« Last Edit: April 03, 2017, 08:55:19 pm by Thorjelly »
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FirePhoenix11

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Re: [43.05] Dwarvemon Mod (650/802 Pokemon)
« Reply #50 on: April 04, 2017, 03:48:12 pm »

As an experiment, I calculated the sizes of a few pokemon using the most literal way possible: by actually opening up ripped 3D models and using their volume with a combination of the height statisitc. The method of this is: open the model. Normalize the model such that the relevant dimension makes it exactly 1 meter tall (because we can't trust the models to be to scale). Calculate the volume of this normalized model. Then, finally, multiply it by the height statistic cubed (height and volume is a cubic relationship; make the height of something twice as big, and the volume increases 8 times). THEN as a last step, I calculated the volume of a human male model, which came out as around 105,000, and divided 80,000 / 105,000 to get a around 0.75, and multiplied all my results by this figure to account for stylistic differences with how things are modeled (bit rounder, more cartoony, bigger heads, accounts for more volume).

I guess, it's too complicated a process to go through every pokemon, but it is an interesting process for comparing... or considering that a mightyena is twice the volume of a dwarf, you might say that even the actual models themselves can't be relied on either..! (I mean, it's impossible to account for what is actual body mass and what is just fur)
This was also considered, but I was sceptical because of the models varying quite a bit. And as I mentioned before, Pokemon could be made up of different materials. It would kinda make sense if a Bulbasaur's volume was attributed to the bulb it has (although I don't think plant matter weights all to much) but that's anyone's guess.

In reality there's not going to be a really good formula for all Pokemon, since they have all kinds of different makeups and features. If someone was willing to do the exact calculations for all Pokemon, that would be sweat, but it would also be a lot of work. I'm mostly happy with the new formula.

Also, hopefully when I get through all the Pokemon and simulate the stats a bit more, they should all see a bit more of a buff, except those with low stats. Making up for some reducing in size (although not vs other Pokemon).
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FirePhoenix11

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Re: [43.05] Dwarvemon Mod (650/802 Pokemon)
« Reply #51 on: April 16, 2017, 09:04:11 pm »


I can confirm that attacks are working now. Interesting that size seemingly determines if semi/megabeasts attack, if that was the problem in the first place.
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FirePhoenix11

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Re: [43.05] Dwarvemon Mod (700/802 Pokemon)
« Reply #52 on: April 19, 2017, 05:29:15 am »

Another large update is done! now stats are simulated a bit more. Along with a few other additions like Totem and Shadow Pokemon. As always, feedback is greatly appreciated.

I can't believe there's only 102 Pokemon to go. It's been quite a few months, but I've almost finished them all (do I become a Poke Maniac?). Only Gen 1 and 5 remain, so there will be 1 more update before 1.0 (all Pokemon being completed).
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Thorjelly

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Re: [43.05] Dwarvemon Mod (700/802 Pokemon)
« Reply #53 on: April 21, 2017, 07:54:43 am »

Mhm, they're actually able to survive past 50 years hehe. Anyway, thanks for the good work, I'll check out the new version soon!

Also. The process of using 3D models to determine volume isn't really that hard. You want me to go through more pokemon doing that for you? I think it tends to give pretty interesting results, and for some pokemon like mightyenas and venosaur/bulbasaur, I probably should have normalized it so the height was the quadrupedal pokemon's width rather than their actual height.. woulda given more expected results. But if you don't think you'd use the volume data, it's alright.
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FirePhoenix11

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Re: [43.05] Dwarvemon Mod (700/802 Pokemon)
« Reply #54 on: April 21, 2017, 06:43:10 pm »

Also. The process of using 3D models to determine volume isn't really that hard. You want me to go through more pokemon doing that for you? I think it tends to give pretty interesting results, and for some pokemon like mightyenas and venosaur/bulbasaur, I probably should have normalized it so the height was the quadrupedal pokemon's width rather than their actual height.. woulda given more expected results. But if you don't think you'd use the volume data, it's alright.
I'm probably going to stick with the current formula, but If you're up for it, there's someone else who is also willing to calculate the volume, so the time could be halved. Do you have models for all the Pokemon which are consistent? I haven't done too much 3D modelling stuff, but wouldn't models of different scales and quality yield varying results?

Also, Dwarf Fortress itself has some size inconsistencies (like an adult cat being 5,000 cm3 vs a crab at 8,000 cm3) but I guess having fantasy elements justifies it.
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RedMageCole

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Re: [43.05] Dwarvemon Mod (700/802 Pokemon)
« Reply #55 on: April 22, 2017, 09:58:21 am »

Have yet to find a Tauros in my Pokemon-only Humans run in Masterwork so that I could make a coveted PokeAwesome reference.
Either way, this mod is wonderful! I'm tempted to actually make a succession fort of it if that hasn't been done yet (considering I haven't had the pleasure of leading one before)...
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FirePhoenix11

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Re: [43.05] Dwarvemon Mod (700/802 Pokemon)
« Reply #56 on: April 22, 2017, 10:07:08 am »

Have yet to find a Tauros in my Pokemon-only Humans run in Masterwork so that I could make a coveted PokeAwesome reference.
Either way, this mod is wonderful! I'm tempted to actually make a succession fort of it if that hasn't been done yet (considering I haven't had the pleasure of leading one before)...
Borechanced features Pokemon. But as far as I know, there isn't any Pokemon only ones.
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RedMageCole

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Re: [43.05] Dwarvemon Mod (700/802 Pokemon)
« Reply #57 on: April 22, 2017, 10:11:07 am »

Then I'm gonna have to be the first, eh? :D
I'm gonna have to go to a Relay for Life visit for the next few hours, but if anyone was interested, let me know! Hey, I'll even let the first 7 adventurers pick their favorite Pokemon to take with them.
I might also incorporate Masterwork because I love Masterwork and I need a reason to get into the Meph tileset (always was too big for me) but that's also a decision you all can make!

EDIT: It's happening!
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 07:27:23 pm by RedMageCole »
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Lord_lemonpie

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Re: [43.05] Dwarvemon Mod (700/802 Pokemon)
« Reply #58 on: April 24, 2017, 07:42:11 am »

ptw
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Thorjelly

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Re: [43.05] Dwarvemon Mod (700/802 Pokemon)
« Reply #59 on: April 24, 2017, 04:42:57 pm »

Ah, Kyubee is a friend of mine, whom I met completely unrelated to DF... It's funny because I had no idea he knew about the dwarvemon mod until I linked it to him, and then it turned out he started a succession fort with them! Small world? Anyways,

I'm probably going to stick with the current formula, but If you're up for it, there's someone else who is also willing to calculate the volume, so the time could be halved. Do you have models for all the Pokemon which are consistent? I haven't done too much 3D modelling stuff, but wouldn't models of different scales and quality yield varying results?

Also, Dwarf Fortress itself has some size inconsistencies (like an adult cat being 5,000 cm3 vs a crab at 8,000 cm3) but I guess having fantasy elements justifies it.

I found a zip that has all the pokemon models in .obj format. It all rips them from the same place, so they're consistent. It's only the first 6 generations, though. My method is to normalize the model to 1m and then multiply it by height statistic cubed, but it's somewhat subjective which -axis- to normalize it on. When I first did the calculations above, I always stuck with the actual height access, but I think it makes sense to do it for whichever axis is longer.

Anyways, if you'd prefer to stick with your current formula either way, that's fine. We probably needn't trouble ourselves, then.
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