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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 833780 times)

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21600 on: June 14, 2018, 12:02:47 pm »

Democrats are pro-homeostasis, by the way.
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Il Palazzo

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21601 on: June 14, 2018, 12:05:15 pm »

Democrats are pro-homeostasis, by the way.
Are you calling Democrats conservative?
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21602 on: June 14, 2018, 12:34:26 pm »

I'm a Democrat but I identify as a conservative.
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21603 on: June 14, 2018, 12:54:22 pm »

Democrats are pro-homeostasis, by the way.
Fucking gay agenda.
I'm a Democrat but I identify as a conservative.
There's a large minority of democrats who are left leaning on some issues, right on others.  I believe its known as the centrist wing of the party.  My mom is "left on social issues, right on economics" and my dad is an old economic values Republican who's become disconnected from the party.  I think there's a lot of people like you, but many are either independents or non-voting Republicans and thus don't get much representation outside swing states.
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Karnewarrior

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21604 on: June 14, 2018, 01:26:09 pm »

I'm a Democrat but I identify as a conservative.
I, too, am Trans-party. Do you think we can get into the Pride Parade?  :P


There's a large minority of democrats who are left leaning on some issues, right on others.  I believe its known as the centrist wing of the party.  My mom is "left on social issues, right on economics" and my dad is an old economic values Republican who's become disconnected from the party.  I think there's a lot of people like you, but many are either independents or non-voting Republicans and thus don't get much representation outside swing states.
I'm actually a Conservative of the old, Teddy Roosevelt type. I'm not particularly concerned about the moral or ethical implications of Climate Change as I am about the threat it poses to Human life and more importantly the resources it might destroy that could be better used by future generations.

Modern Republicans, though, are literal Morganites. "Ethics of Greed" indeed; they either don't care about robbing the future generations or straight up don't believe that the resources are finite, and it's biting everyone in the ass and they don't /care/. The big issue is that the Reps have support from the religious crowd, which is almost entirely supported by their Anti-Abortion stance. A Democrat who was willing to take the Pro-Life platform would probably pull the rug right out from underneath the Reps, although possibly at too high a cost in support from their own base.

Still, preservation of the species/environment > Women's rights, at least for me right now. I'm personally in favor of Abortion being legal before a certain point, but it's hardly the most important thing to me.
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21605 on: June 14, 2018, 01:29:53 pm »

I was making a gender identity joke, but yeah there are a fair amount of middle road types.

I actually happen to be one. I love guns, think gender stuff is confusing (but I accept it mind you), am also pro choice ish, think more socialism might be good, etc.

Also, climate change is real and a problem ffs. But I generally keep up on political stuff to snark and try to get people to explain their positions because teh knowledge.

Ninja'd: you may have explained a Republican ism I could support. Gotta research Teddy's politics now.
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21606 on: June 14, 2018, 01:33:03 pm »

The problem with you Amerrhucans is that you don't get to have a genuine political opinion, just a binary affiliation. And if you try to break away from the mould, you get to be the Caitlyn Jenner of politics.
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UristMcChladni

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21607 on: June 14, 2018, 01:40:23 pm »

I'm a Democrat but I identify as a conservative.
I, too, am Trans-party. Do you think we can get into the Pride Parade?  :P


There's a large minority of democrats who are left leaning on some issues, right on others.  I believe its known as the centrist wing of the party.  My mom is "left on social issues, right on economics" and my dad is an old economic values Republican who's become disconnected from the party.  I think there's a lot of people like you, but many are either independents or non-voting Republicans and thus don't get much representation outside swing states.
I'm actually a Conservative of the old, Teddy Roosevelt type. I'm not particularly concerned about the moral or ethical implications of Climate Change as I am about the threat it poses to Human life and more importantly the resources it might destroy that could be better used by future generations.

Modern Republicans, though, are literal Morganites. "Ethics of Greed" indeed; they either don't care about robbing the future generations or straight up don't believe that the resources are finite, and it's biting everyone in the ass and they don't /care/. The big issue is that the Reps have support from the religious crowd, which is almost entirely supported by their Anti-Abortion stance. A Democrat who was willing to take the Pro-Life platform would probably pull the rug right out from underneath the Reps, although possibly at too high a cost in support from their own base.

Still, preservation of the species/environment > Women's rights, at least for me right now. I'm personally in favor of Abortion being legal before a certain point, but it's hardly the most important thing to me.
I know it's a small thing in the context of your larger post, but the threat to human life and destruction of resources are ethical ramifications of climate change. I think ethics gets a bad rap as 'those things that aren't practical considerations,' but it's really just about how to determine the correct course of action.

Karnewarrior

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21608 on: June 14, 2018, 01:50:19 pm »

I was making a gender identity joke, but yeah there are a fair amount of middle road types.
Me too, mate. That's why I put the :P.

I actually happen to be one. I love guns, think gender stuff is confusing (but I accept it mind you), am also pro choice ish, think more socialism might be good, etc.

Also, climate change is real and a problem ffs. But I generally keep up on political stuff to snark and try to get people to explain their positions because teh knowledge.

Ninja'd: you may have explained a Republican ism I could support. Gotta research Teddy's politics now.
Like I said, I think there's a lot of room for an enterprising Dem to pull the rug out from underneath the reps. The issue is that they need funding to combat the Republican Propaganda Machine that's going to be spewing out as much bullshit as possible to convince people that he doesn't really mean that because he's a SOCIALIST and he's LYING TO YOU AHHHHH!

Teddy's politics were pretty good for the early 1900's, but they're probably pretty dated by now. They'd need some good polishin' before they were presentable to the modern crowd, probably. I do recall that he was big into National Parks and stuff, because he noticed that as industrialism progressed we were losing more and more forested land, and he wanted to make sure that all the funky medicinal plants and spoopy creatures stayed alive so that we could exploit them. I think that's something a lot of Republican voters would support, but their politicans and donors are Morganites and want ALL THE THINGS RIGHT NOW, AND DAMN THE CONSEQUENCES! And Republican voters are particularly susceptible to memes, so it'd be hard to flip them even with the right arguments.

The problem with you Amerrhucans is that you don't get to have a genuine political opinion, just a binary affiliation. And if you try to break away from the mould, you get to be the Caitlyn Jenner of politics.
A big part of that is that our elections are run by a handful of donors who can pay for nation-wide ad campaigns for their pocket candidates. There's not a lot of useful restrictions on how you get money for the campaign, after all.


I know it's a small thing in the context of your larger post, but the threat to human life and destruction of resources are ethical ramifications of climate change. I think ethics gets a bad rap as 'those things that aren't practical considerations,' but it's really just about how to determine the correct course of action.
I submit to your greater linguistic fluency.

What I meant was that, to the Republican eye, Democrats want to "save the forests" because they're soft-skinned and want all the little fluffy owls and squirrels to live, and are willing to sacrifice people or people's QoL to do that. That's not the case IRL, but that's the perception. I was saying that those aren't my concerns, and if I were a politican I'd take pains to make absolutely clear that I don't give a fuck about the fluffy owl, I'm concerned about our future generations running out of wood, and hopefully impress on that segment of the population that keeping the environment stable is just smart planning.

Republicans love their babies too, and they want them to have nice things. Package environmental reform as saving some woodland for your babies at low cost, and most of them will be on your side.
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Trekkin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21609 on: June 14, 2018, 02:00:28 pm »

Republicans love their babies too, and they want them to have nice things. Package environmental reform as saving some woodland for your babies at low cost, and most of them will be on your side.

Alternatively, point out that they personally cannot hunt extinct species. I'm completely serious; that is, as a pitch, not too far from Roosevelt-style conservationism. 

The ads practically write themselves, too. Just have a ripped guy in an orange vest and MAGA hat dual-wielding miniguns at a forest interspersed with shots of crying liberals weeping and wailing at the sight of so many dead furry things, with a voiceover saying "all this could be yours if only we play along with this "climate change" malarkey until they can't call anything endangered anymore."
Cut to the same guy planting an American flag on a mountain of animal corpses and cracking a beer. "Renewable energy today, no-limit all-species seasons year-round tomorrow."

You know NRATV would air that yesterday.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 02:09:18 pm by Trekkin »
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21610 on: June 14, 2018, 02:01:38 pm »

The problem with you Amerrhucans is that you don't get to have a genuine political opinion, just a binary affiliation. And if you try to break away from the mould, you get to be the Caitlyn Jenner of politics.
A big part of that is that our elections are run by a handful of donors who can pay for nation-wide ad campaigns for their pocket candidates. There's not a lot of useful restrictions on how you get money for the campaign, after all.
What's so fucking frustrating about this is that we could have had restrictions, but it came down to the Supreme Court.  AKA the one branch of government that never has to run for re-election.  And they fucked it up anyway.
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21611 on: June 14, 2018, 02:23:13 pm »

Agreed - Citizens United appears to be one of the worst decisions in the past 100 years, if not all 200+ of the US of A.  I don't know if I have enough info to claim that it's the worst, but it's got to be close.
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21612 on: June 14, 2018, 02:48:10 pm »

Agreed - Citizens United appears to be one of the worst decisions in the past 100 years, if not all 200+ of the US of A.  I don't know if I have enough info to claim that it's the worst, but it's got to be close.

+1

Its led to the proliferation of superpacs and stuff and just made the whole campaign money issue worse. On top of that, the FEC is pretty impotent in enforcing what laws are there.
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21613 on: June 14, 2018, 02:50:37 pm »

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #21614 on: June 14, 2018, 03:06:45 pm »

I'd disagree with about half of that list - they're all pretty bad, but I'm confident that the list isn't ranked very well, and that there are worse out there. I'd personally place Citizens United 5th or 6th on that list, after Dred Scott, Plessy, Korematsu, and Buck. The other civil rights issues on the list either were procedural issues (rather than explicitly saying (discriminated group) was lesser, or else were obviously using Scott or Plessy as part of their precedents.
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