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[Gentlefish]

tbh I wish someone ran up to her and was like "You know you're calling them the equivalent of apes and [other less pleasant words], right? It must be okay for me to call you that, then."

[scriver]

It rejuvenates my belief in humanity to see that, no matter what creed or group we belong to, we can always count on ourselves to express and think the exact same shitty opinions of each other. Humanity, united in deplorability since 300 000 years BC.

[Il Palazzo]

You didn’t specify.

Really?

Let's keep picking the nits.
First you made a general claim about kings having been elected for longer than inherited.
When asked for elaboration, you bring up Europe.
Somebody points out older hereditary dynasties existed in other parts of the world, so bringing up Europe does not support your original claim.
You then insist you were only ever talking about Europe.

Moving the goalposts, is what this looks like.

[scriver]

Yeah, I'm sorry I didn't include the history of the entire world and/or make properly define the exact geographical limits of my one-liner comment and joke which's point was that kings can have have commonly been elected, and that I only did so specifically after I had been asked to clarify and/or endepthen what I meant! You're not being unreasonable here at all.

[Il Palazzo]

No, I don't think I am. But do keep being passive aggressive about it.

[hector13]

Now we just need a system of electing professionals who are motivated by the good of the nation, rather than a popularity contest whose winners are allowed to be subsidized by lobbies...

And what, precisely, does an election that is not a popularity contest look like systemically?

Other than a rigged election, of course.

Yeah, I wasn't sarcastically hinting at a better system.  I don't have an answer.
"Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others", after all.

I guess the British House of Lords?  Though I remember very little about that.
The concept of "statemen", leaders who care about the nation above themselves, is very old though.  We used to have a lot more of them in government, but ideals seem to struggle against well-funded campaigns.

tldr; Campaign finance reform, duh.

I hope you're not thinking the House of Lords is a better system, seeing as they're all unelected and there are still hereditary titles in there.

[ChairmanPoo]

It's good to be the king

[Trekkin]

my one-liner comment and joke which's point was that kings can have have commonly been elected

Well, no, it was not, at least not if read literally. You said this:

Also this is your timely reminder that kings have been democratically elected for longer than they have been inherited.

Which we've established is false. Moreover, it's false in a way that matters for the larger context of the argument, which is why I at least keep hammering on it: the forms of governments people tried first suggest things about how they thought government ought to work, which might in turn speak to how we're wired as a social species. That's interesting to me, so I like having accurate data going in.

[Kagus]

http://time.com/5370207/admiral-william-mcraven-donald-trump-security-clearance/

I'm gonna love to see the tweets about this thing.

[Dunamisdeos]

I didn't do it because of their involvement with the ongoing investigation into my illegal activities, I did it because my hands are huge. I mean my dick is tiny. Wait

[Trekkin]

http://time.com/5370207/admiral-william-mcraven-donald-trump-security-clearance/

I'm gonna love to see the tweets about this thing.

He's gonna get upgraded in security clearance to Tippy-Top Secret now, and will finally learn what covfefe is.

[Gentlefish]

It was easy enough to have inherited leadership because division of labors and all, it was easier to teach your kid to lead than it was some random schmuck. And if they did terribly enough it was much, much easier to overthrow them then than now, what with pointy farming equipment being roughly equal to tool of war.

[WealthyRadish]

One the one hand I'd rather we stop being so pedantic, but on the other I'm actually a catty bitch who lives for drama, so:

Also this is your timely reminder that kings have been democratically elected for longer than they have been inherited. Nothing prevents monarchies from being democratic! Well, except the outvoted monarch, possibly...

Which monarchs are you refering to here?

I'm curious on this too.

In the majority of Europe's history, particularly the non-mediterranean western, northern, and eastern bits, kings were elected. Inheriting titles is a late, medieval custom, which likely grew into place at the same time as land titles grew from appointment to inheritance status. A few examples off the top if my head; Queen Margareta of Denmark and Norway was elected queen of Sweden, thereby forming the Kalmar Union. Gustav Vasa, who led the rebellion against the Danish king in 1520-something, was the last elected king of Sweden. In England, William the Bastard invaded the country and became the Conqueror because the Angles had elected Harold Godwinson* instead of him. Polish kings also used to be elected, and (though I cannot recall the name) their modem parliament is still named after their old election assembly.

In general, this all harks back to tribal customs and the propensity for tribes to form democratic and semi-democratic  government structures instead of the tyrannical might-makes-right barbararchies they are often portrayed as in popular culture. In places where the tribal customs remained stronger for a longer time, such as in the North, these democratic systems also remained in power longer.

*(lol autocorrupt wants his name to be Harold Cocaine)

Those are not the first kings.  China is over 4k years old and has not had democratic elections at any point in that time.  There's also the Assyrian Empire, the Romans, the Mayans, the Egyptians, probably several others I don't know off the top of my head.  And the ancient Greeks, since the only city state to be democratic was Athens for a short period of their history and they elected a council not a king.

s: kings were democratically elected for most of history
eg: which?
s: some settled tribes in parts of europe
eg: there are many more counter-examples in history for much longer
s: we're talking about tribes in parts of europe for a relatively short time

Fakedit: Oh dear, 8 new replies, uh

[scriver]

my one-liner comment and joke which's point was that kings can have have commonly been elected

Well, no, it was not, at least not if read literally. You said this:

Also this is your timely reminder that kings have been democratically elected for longer than they have been inherited.

Which we've established is false.

Please literally read the very next sentence after the one you quoted. You could even quote that one as well, so people can see what you cut.

[Karnewarrior]

http://time.com/5370207/admiral-william-mcraven-donald-trump-security-clearance/

I'm gonna love to see the tweets about this thing.

I bet Trump does it.

And then the Trumpeteers all laugh and congratulate each other on purging another "anti-american" scumbag who dared to question Trump, while avoiding the fact that the guy is partially responsible for killing literally Bin Laden.