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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 3581529 times)

Trekkin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #25470 on: November 11, 2018, 03:00:57 pm »

But let's take a step back and talk about the actual policies we need, in no particular order:

And you're paying for them how, exactly?
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PTTG??

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #25471 on: November 11, 2018, 03:14:23 pm »

But let's take a step back and talk about the actual policies we need, in no particular order:

And you're paying for them how, exactly?

Don't get all fiscal conservative on me. There's always money for another war, but the minute someone suggests actually improving living conditions for anyone, all of a sudden we're a pauper nation. But to answer the question, #4.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #25472 on: November 11, 2018, 03:26:48 pm »

"There's always a rain plan" Incompetence of the current organisation, maybe, if you don't like the alternative.
Pointing out incompetence in an American government is pointing out the water in the ocean

Whatever, it seemed like other leaders (if you'll excuse the implication coming from the word 'other') managed to get there, obviously by magic and/or transporter beam.
I do not see the implication, they are the other leaders of the group of leaders being discussed ~o.o~
The obvious distinction is that the other leaders do not have so many enemies, detractors & would-be assassins. The drive was 2 hours from Paris where they mobilised 10,000 police just to keep crowd control in advance of Trump - not any other world leader, just Trump, because only Trump is both relevant and despised enough

(As for Obama's umbrella-thing, the cooking up of which by those partisan complainants leaves me no problem at all delving into Trump's portfolio of perfidy from out here on the sidelines, we know that Trump has no umbrella sense at all. Can't use the things properly, seemingly has difficuty keeping them intact, and can't collapse them if he does. I probably wouldn't point that out as reasons for impeachment, or anything, but given how 'the other side' ranted about that one occasion when the West Wing was on the other foot... Well, you've got to put it down as an indication of pre-existing hypocrisy if illumination must be shone upon this subject.)
The classic NO U which enslaves us in the banality of fucking umbrellas

Kagus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #25473 on: November 11, 2018, 03:32:22 pm »

Do not fuck umbrellas, it is unsafe.

Rowanas

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #25474 on: November 11, 2018, 03:36:02 pm »

Do not fuck umbrellas, it is unsafe.

Anything is a dildo if you're brave enough.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #25475 on: November 11, 2018, 03:46:55 pm »

Do not fuck umbrellas, it is unsafe.
They are well engineered to withstand wet and stormy conditions

Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #25476 on: November 11, 2018, 03:52:41 pm »

Pointing out incompetence in an American government is pointing out the water in the ocean.
"...the wettest we’ve ever seen from the standpoint of water,” - Donald J Trump, clearly demonstrating how he intended to set new standards for this kind of thing.

I let myself get dragged into this. I know you're 4edgy5me, and all, and I should by now know better so please don't let me interrupt you any further.
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Folly

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #25477 on: November 11, 2018, 03:53:34 pm »

Quote from: Donald Trump
There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor. Billions of dollars are given each year, with so many lives lost, all because of gross mismanagement of the forests. Remedy now, or no more Fed payments!

Is there any subject that Donald Trump can't display gross ignorance about?
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Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #25478 on: November 11, 2018, 03:54:42 pm »

(If there is one, he doesn't know what it is!)
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Trekkin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #25479 on: November 11, 2018, 04:01:13 pm »

But let's take a step back and talk about the actual policies we need, in no particular order:

And you're paying for them how, exactly?

Don't get all fiscal conservative on me. There's always money for another war, but the minute someone suggests actually improving living conditions for anyone, all of a sudden we're a pauper nation. But to answer the question, #4.

Oh, if you're going to just start demanding that multi-trillion dollar programs materialize from whole cloth and branding everyone who asks how you're going to do that as a war hawk, then yes, I am absolutely going to "get all fiscal conservative" on you until you actually take the time to show how the numbers add up. Single-payer would cost about $1.9 trillion, if we take the average of the Sanders and Thorpe plans. We already spend $620 billion on education; I'd like to know what counts as "proper" in your eyes, because I've seen approaches that would triple that called insufficient. Mars is another $1.5 - $2 trillion on top of that, if you want people living there. "Apollo-scale" carbon sequestration sounds grand but says nothing about how much you want sequestered; if you mean all of it, that's another $800 billion using median estimates of $130 per metric ton.

Adding all that up, you're asking for about a 1768% hike in corporate tax revenues to cover the extra $5.7 trillion in spending you want. That's a hard sell, particularly when our defense budget is barely 11.7% of that at 681 billion.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2018, 04:08:25 pm by Trekkin »
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Doomblade187

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #25480 on: November 11, 2018, 04:18:43 pm »

There are also economic considerations. A demand-level program of increased social welfare could improve the overall economy, and environmental cleanup programs can be used to create jobs. While this still involves the government employing people directly, the people spend money back into the economy.
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In any case it would be a battle of critical thinking and I refuse to fight an unarmed individual.
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #25481 on: November 11, 2018, 04:26:09 pm »

Quote from: Donald Trump
There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor. Billions of dollars are given each year, with so many lives lost, all because of gross mismanagement of the forests. Remedy now, or no more Fed payments!

Is there any subject that Donald Trump can't display gross ignorance about?
Tax fraud?
Trump has successfully prevented a clear discussion of how climate change has caused this California fire season. Never mind the impossible drought and severe, unseasonal winds that drove the fire spread.

And yes, if Trump said the Sky was blue, I would be pretty confident that the sky was red or green or anything else besides blue, sight unseen.
Except that draining aquifers, mismanaging the water drained from them (HEY LETS GO THROW WATER AT THE DESERT GUIZ), fucking exploding fire trees, people refusing to let any burns happen until they explode, and the worst sin of all: living in California which clearly hates humans. Climate change or not, California is going to burn, acting like this is surprising or due to something besides stupid policies involving everything about living in California is ridiculous.

If you think California's not worth living in, I guess we're going to have to evacuate the midwest (the only place on the planet which reliably has tornadoes), and the south (those hurricanes are only getting worse) and the east coast (due to proximity to New Jersey).
Texas is worth living in despite the south end of tornado alley being there--though lets ignore that we just had one of the least interesting tornado seasons yet--and the rest, yeah, but most of the country doesn't get earthquakes, landslides, mudslides, L.A. people, and top it off with a big wildfire cherry. Hurricanes are getting more costly because of more people being encouraged to rebuild in previously flooded areas, strengthwise is another matter, which makes sense, in a planet which is warming you would expect a reduced equator to pole temperature gradient, and since that gradient is what powers the most destructive storms it's weird to argue they'll get stronger somehow.

And yeah, I know California's prone to fires. Despite that, this is the deadliest and most severe fire season in decades. If it was due to policies, we'd see this stuff happening every year, or else reliably every few years, not clustered in the past 5-10. This firestorm is due to terrible conditions and lack of rain, both of which can be attributed to climate change.
Uh, deadliest? most destructive? Your link doesn't seem to support this idea that it was a new thing, or the worst ever even, though I don't doubt it is being reported that way.

Of course, policy can mitigate the loss due to fire. We can mandate stone houses and defensible spaces. We can insist on firebreaks around every town. But don't act like there's someone out there who said "I'm a Republican, and if we have a Democrat in office, that will lead to the state burning to the ground for any reason other divine judgement."
I'm not sure what this means, I'm virulently and violently anti-republican, but it is hard for me to parse this properly besides the first bit about policy. It's been a problem for decades that we catch and stop any minor burn before it spreads, this causes dead plant matter to build up until you get a fire too big to catch and stop which roars through the whole area.

I'd be frankly terrified of living near the field we have next door if Memphis wasn't soggy year round, stuff never dries out enough to slog over and remove it even mid-summer.
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Trekkin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #25482 on: November 11, 2018, 04:32:05 pm »

There are also economic considerations. A demand-level program of increased social welfare could improve the overall economy, and environmental cleanup programs can be used to create jobs. While this still involves the government employing people directly, the people spend money back into the economy.

Sure, and I'm not saying that PTTG's wish list is impossible. I'm just saying that there's a persistent fiction in our political discourse that we can solve everything by taxing the rich and big corporations more, and there's a limit to the available revenue from that past which we're effectively presenting a structural critique of capitalism instead of a budget. I don't think we're ready to have that conversation as a nation yet, though I would be overjoyed to be wrong -- but if we're going to try, let's try with an understanding of the size of the system we're upending.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #25483 on: November 11, 2018, 04:34:05 pm »

"...the wettest we’ve ever seen from the standpoint of water,” - Donald J Trump, clearly demonstrating how he intended to set new standards for this kind of thing.

I let myself get dragged into this. I know you're 4edgy5me, and all, and I should by now know better so please don't let me interrupt you any further.
I wish him the best of luck because not even a Caesar, Temujin, Alexios or Victoria could unfuck the incompetence, especially where a swampman does not a swamp make. If Donald Trump had never existed, I would still hold the same complaints. If Donald Trump resigned tomorrow, I would still hold the same complaints. Everyone loves a national villain

Sure, and I'm not saying that PTTG's wish list is impossible. I'm just saying that there's a persistent fiction in our political discourse that we can solve everything by taxing the rich and big corporations more, and there's a limit to the available revenue from that past which we're effectively presenting a structural critique of capitalism instead of a budget. I don't think we're ready to have that conversation as a nation yet, though I would be overjoyed to be wrong -- but if we're going to try, let's try with an understanding of the size of the system we're upending.
You can't solve everything, but by God you can raise a hell of a lot of revenue just by closing tax havens down

Kagus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #25484 on: November 11, 2018, 04:37:48 pm »

I like California. Slater's 50/50 is in California, and they let you build your own burgers. Can even ask for full-pounder patties, weighed after cooking...

Oh, yeah, also have family living there, but eh.
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