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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 1117650 times)

Th4DwArfY1

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30930 on: April 27, 2019, 11:21:41 am »

Totes over analysing.

Also, I'm guessing (hoping?) it worked out okay for her anyway. Presumably by this point she'd not want to get rid of her child.
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30931 on: April 27, 2019, 11:40:14 am »

Yeah, I mean, I'm not judging for choices made or making assumptions about your friend's situation here, but my grandmother also had her first kid at 17. This was in 1953, mind you.

Her life was very goddam difficult but now she has 5 kids (my aunts and uncles) who are all relatively stable and successful and my grandmother just sold the last of her three houses to retire in an assisted living place. We have a large, connected, relatively stable family.

Point is that yes, unplanned births are very difficult and very life-altering, but they aren't the unilaterally catastrophic life-ending event that society seems to think it is. You can thrive regardless. I hope your friend can find a way to make a good life out of her situation.
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30932 on: April 27, 2019, 03:40:25 pm »

To be fair, an unplanned birth at 17 in 1965 was way different than one at even 22 in 2019.
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Kagus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30933 on: April 27, 2019, 04:14:13 pm »

-snip-
Asimov's laws of robotics were also specifically designed to cause conflicts and paradoxes, rather than avoid them... Because, y'know, a story where everything works as it should and everything goes well generally won't be a very interesting story to read.

As for my friend, yeah, she's a cute kid and things have (outwardly) managed to work out. The complete flake of a boyfriend even managed to show up to his own wedding, not to mention the rest of the child's life.

Would it have been nice to finish high school? Probably. But that's not something to think about anymore; the course of life has been determined and there's not much to do about it.

And since she's done her job of producing a child, she's actually gotten a lot of help and support from her family, which was of course instrumental to not-dying.


For me personally? ... I have a mental illness, one that can potentially be inherited. I have genetic history of mental illness, with a psychopathic aunt and a great-grandmother who decided to bring her youngest child along for a murder-suicide.

And even if I didn't, I know how much pain I've lived through, in the hands of two well-to-do parents who loved me very much and thought the world of me. I even had the luxury of having a stay-at-home mom.

If I could go so wrong with that kind of a start... How fucking badly could I destroy the life of my own child?

Egan_BW

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30934 on: April 27, 2019, 07:48:42 pm »

The real problem with the three laws is that humans love murder too much to let Law 1 be above Law 2:

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Dunamisdeos

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30935 on: April 29, 2019, 12:48:00 pm »

-snip-
Asimov's laws of robotics were also specifically designed to cause conflicts and paradoxes, rather than avoid them... Because, y'know, a story where everything works as it should and everything goes well generally won't be a very interesting story to read.

As for my friend, yeah, she's a cute kid and things have (outwardly) managed to work out. The complete flake of a boyfriend even managed to show up to his own wedding, not to mention the rest of the child's life.

Would it have been nice to finish high school? Probably. But that's not something to think about anymore; the course of life has been determined and there's not much to do about it.

And since she's done her job of producing a child, she's actually gotten a lot of help and support from her family, which was of course instrumental to not-dying.


For me personally? ... I have a mental illness, one that can potentially be inherited. I have genetic history of mental illness, with a psychopathic aunt and a great-grandmother who decided to bring her youngest child along for a murder-suicide.

And even if I didn't, I know how much pain I've lived through, in the hands of two well-to-do parents who loved me very much and thought the world of me. I even had the luxury of having a stay-at-home mom.

If I could go so wrong with that kind of a start... How fucking badly could I destroy the life of my own child?

My old man got beat with a tire iron for most of his childhood. His little brother and sisters also got beat, and so did his mother.

Never laid a finger on me (OK, occasional spankings). He made a decision to break that cycle and he was successful. Genetic concerns are certainly something to think about, but you aren't simply the sum of your family history, and your child would not be either.
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Folly

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30936 on: April 29, 2019, 12:51:52 pm »

My old man got beat with a tire iron for most of his childhood. His little brother and sisters also got beat, and so did his mother.
Never laid a finger on me (OK, occasional spankings). He made a decision to break that cycle and he was successful. Genetic concerns are certainly something to think about, but you aren't simply the sum of your family history, and your child would not be either.

We think our fathers fools, so wise we grow. Our wiser sons, no doubt will think us so.
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Frumple

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30937 on: April 29, 2019, 12:57:02 pm »

Genetic concerns are definitely a different beast from an abusive father, generally. It turns the prospect of having a child into even more of a crapshoot than normal, and (doubly so considering it's one of the major reasons I'm personally not going to have kids) I wouldn't blame someone for not wanting to inflict the shit they suffer through on another human being. You can talk about sums all you want but when you have a notable genetic issue you're aware of, you're very much making the decision to be okay with fucking up someone's life should you decide to reproduce. Never felt like a good look to me, particularly when said someone is supposed to be a loved one.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30938 on: April 29, 2019, 01:01:16 pm »

-snip-
Asimov's laws of robotics were also specifically designed to cause conflicts and paradoxes, rather than avoid them... Because, y'know, a story where everything works as it should and everything goes well generally won't be a very interesting story to read.

As for my friend, yeah, she's a cute kid and things have (outwardly) managed to work out. The complete flake of a boyfriend even managed to show up to his own wedding, not to mention the rest of the child's life.

Would it have been nice to finish high school? Probably. But that's not something to think about anymore; the course of life has been determined and there's not much to do about it.

And since she's done her job of producing a child, she's actually gotten a lot of help and support from her family, which was of course instrumental to not-dying.


For me personally? ... I have a mental illness, one that can potentially be inherited. I have genetic history of mental illness, with a psychopathic aunt and a great-grandmother who decided to bring her youngest child along for a murder-suicide.

And even if I didn't, I know how much pain I've lived through, in the hands of two well-to-do parents who loved me very much and thought the world of me. I even had the luxury of having a stay-at-home mom.

If I could go so wrong with that kind of a start... How fucking badly could I destroy the life of my own child?

My old man got beat with a tire iron for most of his childhood. His little brother and sisters also got beat, and so did his mother.

Never laid a finger on me (OK, occasional spankings). He made a decision to break that cycle and he was successful. Genetic concerns are certainly something to think about, but you aren't simply the sum of your family history, and your child would not be either.

I have a similar history. From the stories I've heard, my father's father was a irrational drunk with a hair-trigger temper. He was also prone to violent outbursts. Not, mind you, to the point where his family was overly scared of him or hated him, but enough that they were very aware of it. My own father avoided this, and applied mild violence only when me, my sister, or one of my cousins did something incredibly dangerous -like forcing a four-year-old to walk across an expressway in the early evening-, or tried to cover up something dangerous.

In my grandfather's case, at least, we know what the problem was. He had a very hard war (came back from the Pacific with four or five Japanese bullets in him, and a chestful of medals because he was much better at killing Japanese then they were at killing him), and never got any kind of mental health treatment. His rages were almost certainly the result of untreated PTSD aggravated by the alcohol he was self-medicating with.
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30939 on: April 29, 2019, 01:07:12 pm »

Yeah I had to consider genetic problems too, I have a history of a couple of conditions in my family. But that's a personal choice that you have to make, and I don't think anyone can judge you one way or another. Especially given how different one person's situation can be from another. I'm sure that a doctor can advise you of the specific risks, such as the actual likelihood of various conditions being passed down if you ever really consider having kids.

My step-grandfather, the violent one, also had a history of abuse from his father. I forget the details but it was worse than the tire iron. In his mind he was going easy, I think he said as much once or twice.

Point is though, yeah, genetic concerns are a real thing. But you can be a good father even if you have a history of.... difficulty, I guess, to put it broadly. You decide who you will be in that regard. Frankly the fact that it concerns you is probably the best indicator possible that you are capable of rising above.
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Folly

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30940 on: April 29, 2019, 01:24:58 pm »

You all talk about breaking the cycle, but the cycle is far more nefarious than that.

A child learns from the mistakes of his father, and because of those experiences he decides to be a better person with his own children. But then his children never have those experiences to learn from, and when they become fathers themselves they repeat the mistakes of their ancestors. It's kind of a catch-22.
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30941 on: April 29, 2019, 01:32:47 pm »

I don't think that kids turn out worse because their fathers do a good job and avoid the mistakes of the past? I assume that not what you're trying to say, but it is what you've said :3
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30942 on: April 29, 2019, 01:41:38 pm »

I kind of have a hard time believing that Mr. Roger's kids would ever grow up to be violent.
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30943 on: April 29, 2019, 01:42:09 pm »

My father passed on to me child beating genes, so I have an insatiable urge to lock the limbs of children when I see them in a DF style wrestling system.
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LordBaal

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #30944 on: April 29, 2019, 01:45:39 pm »

In my case it wasnt beatings, that would have implied I spent enough time with him. Fortunately the role got picked by my grandfather that was the sweetest dude in the world, with all his defects he never laid a hand on me.

My biological father wasn't evil or anything really, actually a pretty cool guy with lots of love to give, to the point of having 10 brothers and sisters by my father's side and counting, only 3 of them were from same mother, 2 of which are already dead.

I didn't hate him or anything but even since before knowing how babies were made I made a vow of never doing the same that he did regarding childs. I married the most beautiful girl and  a single kid with her. In time if we manage to escape here we migth have another one. The point is I'll raise my son to make sure or at least give a hell of a try for him to follow my example,
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« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 01:47:12 pm by LordBaal »
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