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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 1080728 times)

scriver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #32910 on: August 25, 2019, 04:10:53 am »

Wouldn't you technically "go to jail" (metaphorically, as in at least be punished) for not paying tariffs too though :P
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Kagus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #32911 on: August 25, 2019, 04:37:59 am »

Wouldn't you technically "go to jail" (metaphorically, as in at least be punished) for not paying tariffs too though :P
Go directly to jail. Do not pass GO. Do not collect $200.

thompson

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #32912 on: August 25, 2019, 05:13:00 am »

Really, people shouldn't use the word fascist in serious discussions unless it relates to the historical political movement, a derivative movement, or as a slur. Otherwise it just means "authoritarian regime". Trump is certainly authoritarian in style, and likely a white nationalist, but his views are not a continuation of fascist ideology or tradition. Mussollini defined it essential as a totalarian regime with a single absolute ruler where the people serve the state with absolute loyalty. North Korea probably comes close to that. Trump really has more in common with your average Middle Eastern or African despot.

Wait! It finally makes sense! Trump intends to solve the immigration "problem" by turning the US into a"shit-hole" country no one will ever want to come to. It's been 5D chess all along.
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Kagus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #32913 on: August 25, 2019, 05:19:14 am »

Trump really has more in common with your average Middle Eastern or African despot.
I keep telling you people; Trump's secretly an Muslim immigrant from Africa who's trying to turn the US into the new caliphate by expunging all other Muslims who could challenge his rule!

wierd

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #32914 on: August 25, 2019, 05:20:18 am »

Specifically, "Fascism" is a form of government that attains power through a false narrative of national pride (Aryanism for historic nazis (basically, that Germany and the German people needed to return to this golden, and glorious past (that never existed), and that it was their birthright to do so.), MAGA for recent US [Which is based on the notion that there was a glorious past (that never existed), in which the US's innate superiority elevated it to the world power it eventually became, and that the US and its people need to return to the politics and mindsets of that period, in order to claim american manifest destiny once more.] ), which uses an ethnic or national identity as a platform for primacy ("Das Faterland" for historic nazis, "America First!" for recent US), and which combines 'corporate' (more trade groups and the like, like the RIAA and MPAA in the US, rather than Corporations) power with government power (like was attempted many times with the TPP and pals; Essentially handing such groups official [or defacto] government positions, and enabling them in such a fashion). It typically has militant expansionism, and uses aggressive state control of media to promulgate its message.

The modern US has a great many analogues to historic german nazi tactics, like I just pointed out.  All that's needed is a coup in government to usurp democratic elections, and to impose a dictator, along with a real hardcore promotion of Trumpist media and propaganda, possibly with Trump deciding to take Greenland over forcibly, because we somehow need the room or something.

Sidelining how horribly terrible modern parallels are because we havent gassed people to death en mass yet, is just not sensible.  The time to cry foul is BEFORE that happens.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2019, 05:31:10 am by wierd »
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thompson

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #32915 on: August 25, 2019, 07:11:45 am »

"Fascism" (Italian for "the people's movement) was a political movement founded by Benito Mussolini after he broke ranks with the Italian Socialists and created an "third way" that was politically appealing to the upper class as it allowed them to keep their wealth, and perhaps more importantly, their heads. Mussolini's success inspired many copy cat movements which didn't really have much in the way of ideological unity aside from pandering to nationalism. Notably, most fascist leaders were nobodies before seizing power.

On the other hand, the US has many, many nationalistic and racist ideological traditions such as "white supremacy", "manifest destiny" and "US exceptionalism" many of which predate fascism by over a century. Indeed, the US white supremacist movement was a source of inspiration for the National Socialists who widely circulated propaganda about US eugenics programs to justify German programs of similar intent. To me Trump appears to have been much more strongly influenced by these US "intellectual" traditions rather than the mess that was fascism. On the other hand, the core feature of fascism - an unquestionable leader and ruthless suppression of any dissent - is largely absent. Not completely, mind you. Trump likely fantasizes about being a real dictator, but I doubt he's the first president to do that.

There is obviously overlap and ideological interchange between different extreme right movements in different countries, but lumping everything into the fascist draw doesn't help educate people about any of this. Trump is likely a white nationalist, and probably a white supremacist. That I don't (yet) consider him a fascist is not a consequence that I don't think he's "that bad" (white supremacism is not "better", just different), it's that I feel he is not motivated by fascist ideology specifically.
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Arx

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #32916 on: August 25, 2019, 07:23:51 am »

Trump likely fantasizes about being a real dictator, but I doubt he's the first president to do that.

I don't imagine any president ever hasn't at least briefly wished to be able to issue unilateral orders.
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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #32917 on: August 25, 2019, 09:08:01 am »

Wouldn't you technically "go to jail" (metaphorically, as in at least be punished) for not paying tariffs too though :P

That's like saying a tax on something is the same as it being illegal, since if you don't pay the tax, you'll "go to jail". Clearly, they're different things. No, sanctions and tariffs are different things, the same as something being taxed is different to it being completely illegal.

Naturegirl1999

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #32918 on: August 25, 2019, 10:00:17 am »

Thank you for teaching me about this, it’s good to learn
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Kagus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #32919 on: August 25, 2019, 10:47:52 am »

Thank you for teaching me about this, it’s good to learn
A good learn is man to man.

Wait, no... A man good is hard to learn.

Shit! A learned man is good and hard!

A stroke me is having to think!

scriver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #32920 on: August 25, 2019, 11:43:27 am »

Wouldn't you technically "go to jail" (metaphorically, as in at least be punished) for not paying tariffs too though :P

That's like saying a tax on something is the same as it being illegal, since if you don't pay the tax, you'll "go to jail". Clearly, they're different things. No, sanctions and tariffs are different things, the same as something being taxed is different to it being completely illegal.

Yet when I levied a 10% tax on the amount I was taxed last year that's exactly what happened :(
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Cheesy Honkers

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #32921 on: August 25, 2019, 11:45:55 am »

Bames Nond's having a stronk, call a Bondulance

Trolldefender99

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #32922 on: August 26, 2019, 03:19:48 pm »

Not sure if we have a more appropriate thread. But technically its still america...I guess...couldn't find a better thread unless I missed it.

But its looking like not too long in the future the amazon rainforest just won't exist. Its almost at a point of no return. That'll have a massive effect on climate throughout south america and the rest of the world, but also sad for all the species of animals, tribes and everything that lives within. Even without the fires, every minute there is a football field of forest cut down.

Very very sad.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 03:21:27 pm by Trolldefender99 »
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Naturegirl1999

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #32923 on: August 26, 2019, 03:39:44 pm »

I remember hearing that the Amazon rainforest contains around 10% of the world’s known species. When the rainforest is destroyed, 1 out of 10 known species will go extinct
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Quote from: Naturegirl1999 IRL
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Trolldefender99

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #32924 on: August 26, 2019, 03:44:10 pm »

I remember hearing that the Amazon rainforest contains around 10% of the world’s known species. When the rainforest is destroyed, 1 out of 10 known species will go extinct

Not to mention all the undiscovered species. They still find new species of life all the time down there.

Would be on a scale relative to the mass extinction back in the pre-historic age from when the meteor hit and caused an ice age.
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