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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 3535242 times)

scriver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #33090 on: October 22, 2019, 05:03:07 pm »

Vaqueros are cowboys

Vaca = cow

Vaquero = somebody who cows

Yes. Congratulations on knowing a Spanish word. The point, which I would have thought obvious, is that the original vaqueros were not white cowboys.

Speaking Spanish doesn't suddenly make a person not white


Plus, if you want to talk racism: why do we call the people here before that kidfucking piece of shit Columbus indians?

As I recall it, according to some review that was shared here on bay12 long ago, it's what Indians (in the US) prefer to be called, as a term that includes all native American nations. Opposedly, "native American" is something that mostly white Americans preferred to call them.

One has to specify US-American Indians/Natives because in Canada they had a much stronger preference for their "First Nations" term.
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SalmonGod

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #33091 on: October 22, 2019, 05:10:17 pm »

Fun story:  I went to my first Gencon in 2000 at the age of 16.  I dressed up as a drow.  Painted every visible part of my body with black paint, and my hair snow white.  Had nooooo clue about the history of blackface or minstrelsy.  There was nothing more to it in my mind than dressing up as a fantasy character.  Stopped at a grocery store on the way to the convention center, and after we left, the friend of the family who was escorting me told me she was taken aside by some pretty angry black people to question my make-up.

Plus, if you want to talk racism: why do we call the people here before that kidfucking piece of shit Columbus indians?

I just did a bit of looking around, and was surprised to find there's still many out there who prefer American Indian over Native American as a blanket term.  Mostly out of convenience.

I was looking, because I recently saw a quote from one who claimed he preferred Indian.  I couldn't find it again, and I wish I could remember it better.  But it was something along the lines of every term having its own issues, but with Indian, at least it has the benefit of preserving the association of their problems, including the terminology problem, with one deplorable white man's colossal fuck-up.  I got a kick out of that logic.
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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #33092 on: October 22, 2019, 05:12:16 pm »

It's worth pointing out that Indian is similar to Indigenous. "Indigena" in latin means "native". So it's no better or worse. Possibly better.

In fact, the name India for East India is of Latin origins too, it's not a local word. it's also worth pointing out that in that time "The Indies" was more or less just a word for Asia. The term included Japan, China, Indonesia, Malaysia. So calling them Indians didn't mean he confused them with India it means he was labeling them as Asians basically.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 05:17:07 pm by Reelya »
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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #33093 on: October 22, 2019, 05:19:13 pm »

It's also worth pointing out that often we have a confused etymology as in this situation. Because we (now) refer to specifically people of the Indian Subcontinent as Indians too we assume that's what Colombus meant. However, in that time usage of the term was a lot more vague.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 05:30:04 pm by Reelya »
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WealthyRadish

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #33094 on: October 22, 2019, 09:07:19 pm »

I will admit, this scan is awful, but see chapter 2 of this. Goes into the full thing, though admittedly in the context of debunking US history textbooks.

This is a cathartic read, and it also pointed to the highly interesting proclamation that the Spanish started reading out to natives upon meeting them (before the subsequent enslavement etc). This is totally tangential with no relevance to american politics, but I find it hilarious due to sounding so similar to the modern ToS agreements we constantly "agree" to:


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Trekkin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #33095 on: October 22, 2019, 09:32:10 pm »

Followed, presumably, by "amaliciouslydelayingvassalsayswhat?" and then the invading.
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A Thing

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #33096 on: October 22, 2019, 10:00:51 pm »

Plus, if you want to talk racism: why do we call the people here before that kidfucking piece of shit Columbus indians?
I've seen you blame him for this before, but... Columbus didn't really do [Native] American genocide. That was pretty much everyone that came after him.

He was a douchebag, but all he did was make an imbecillic claim ("the world is smaller than literally everyone else thinks and so going west to China is feasible!"), lucked out in finding another continent, proceeded to panic because his contract explicitly said he'd be rewarded for finding the East Indies, decided to pretend he was totally in the Indies and not in a new land, proceeded to get arrested for treason (lying to the Crown), died in jail.

You want to blame everyone else for the Americas genocide? Go right ahead, but Columbus wasn't actually responsible for that... he was just a dick.
None of that is true.

I will admit, this scan is awful, but see chapter 2 of this. Goes into the full thing, though admittedly in the context of debunking US history textbooks.

Ahh, thanks for this link. This reminds me of a book I read a bit ago which had samples of a variety of topics in American History textbooks from different periods of time. I can't remember if the book was trying to prove that American history books got better or not, but the politics involved in their creation were very clear in most of the samples.
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Il Palazzo

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #33097 on: October 22, 2019, 10:10:36 pm »

BTW, one of the sources that chapter invokes - de las Casas, of the destruction of Indies - is a good read. Or maybe not so much 'good' as an important one, since it's a grim account. A translation is on the Gutenberg Project.
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A Thing

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #33098 on: October 22, 2019, 10:16:30 pm »

BTW, one of the sources that chapter invokes - de las Casas, of the destruction of Indies - is a good read. Or maybe not so much 'good' as an important one, since it's a grim account. A translation is on the Gutenberg Project.

Yeah I saw that guy, and seeing his name and style of writing he seemed interesting. It says a lot when there is a clear historical figure who had written against slavery and colonialism, which textbooks portray as unquestioned in the time period, and the textbook goes "nah man that would mess up what we're trying to say" instead of including him.

Edit: of course on reading further he wasn't a saint either*, but it's still something worth noting, if not expounding on.

*what with the whole "what if we just bring in African slaves instead" thing. Although it seems he reversed that view later in life, I somehow doubt that reversed whatever damage that almost certainly happened because of his influence.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 10:24:31 pm by A Thing »
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Iduno

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #33099 on: October 23, 2019, 07:44:27 am »

Plus, if you want to talk racism: why do we call the people here before that kidfucking piece of shit Columbus indians?
I've seen you blame him for this before, but... Columbus didn't really do [Native] American genocide. That was pretty much everyone that came after him.

He made 2 return visits. After one, he was sent back to Spain in chains for being too abusive for a group of people who were sent to enslave people.
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Max™

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #33100 on: October 23, 2019, 09:27:28 am »

Columbus kicked off the exploration which brought the plagues which the Spaniards carried so yes, while it would be incorrect to say he did it himself, he gets credit over here in the states for "discovering america" which is horrifying really. I say it's only fair to point out that he was the one who got the apocalypse started over here. When modern day low end estimates of the population of the americas runs around 10 million people or so and the high end starts making the old world look underpopulated, while the way it is presented as fact in schools that there were maybe a million or so people here and had never been more so the landscape was untouched by man by the time the british and dutch arrived, the blame chain goes back to that fucknut. The period gets called Pre-Columbian for a reason.
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PTTG??

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #33101 on: October 23, 2019, 02:16:34 pm »

How did the USA turn into a gerontocracy? It can't simply be blamed on boomers since they are a minority voting block. How were three generations convinced that none of them were suitable for leadership?
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Naturegirl1999

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #33102 on: October 23, 2019, 02:32:33 pm »

It might be because many people don't think they can lead, or maybe it's because older people tend to have more money/are easily convinced to help those who promise lots of money. I think America could better be described as a plutocracy.
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Iduno

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #33103 on: October 23, 2019, 02:44:56 pm »

The minimum age of 35 probably has some effect as well.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #33104 on: October 23, 2019, 02:52:14 pm »

Despite a few recent examples, going straight from everyday life to national office is extremely rare.

More typically, the path to office starts with local positions, then state ones, before you're eventually bootstrapped into a vacant House or  Senate seat. This takes time, and it is pretty common for a fist-term Congressperson to alread have 10-15 years in politics.
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