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[fqllve]

Last I was paying attention, all of the major dem candidates (except maybe pete, to the extent he is one?) are showing every sign of tearing up Trump in the general. And fairly legitimately, not that "well, actually the polls are neck and neck but let's not mention that" crap. That won't be an easy or clean fight, but it's one I'm not as worried about as what comes after given how much the shitgibbon has pissed off the country.

Warren isn't polling any better vs Trump than Clinton was in 2016. Sanders is.

I'm utterly terrified of that race. I think we all should be. No one thought he could win in 2016 either. He did, it was a major upset. Confidence and playing it safe aren't going to win this and people's lives very literally depend on us making the right choice.

I'm really sorry things are so hard for you right now, though. Genuinely that's gotta be such a hard situation to deal with. I hope things get better for you soon.

Warren could actually legitimately connect to voters with reagan portraits in their living room that are rightfully disgusted by the big orange turdbaby, and despite her dweebishness at times she's far more normal and likeable than Hillary was, while Sanders falls victim too often to yelling at cloud syndrome

Trump has a very strong approval rating with Republican voters. Is it worth courting those few Republicans, or right-leaning independents, at the cost of bringing out the Democratic base?

and honestly only seems viable because he's got a dude with his brains oozing out of his ears to contrast him against standing on stage with him.

This is really uncharitable. Sanders seems viable, to me at least, because he's the furthest left candidate I've seen in my life with a real chance for winning. Do I think he will accomplish even half of what he intends? No, I don't expect any president to, but I do think his winning would symbolize a change that will give me hope in our country again. I, and many other people, are just sick of moderates using us to get elected and then forgetting about us.

[Max™]

I wouldn't ride in a car him or Biden were driving, would you?

[SalmonGod]

Sanders falls victim too often to yelling at cloud syndrome, and honestly only seems viable because he's got a dude with his brains oozing out of his ears to contrast him against standing on stage with him.

Or maybe it's because his power levels are off the charts...



Maybe it's because the line that stuff like this isn't palatable to the American public has been propaganda to prevent us from testing that theory all along, and now that someone like this has actually shown up for real, millions of previously non-voters are suddenly interested in politics.

And Frumple - your response is reassuring.  It sucks that you're having such a rough time.  I can relate.  I've been under incredible increasing strain the last few years, too, and not able to keep up with things as much as I normally like to.  I used to be able to pick apart everything in detail with sources near effortlessly, and these days I'm gliding more on disparate bits and pieces of information, instincts, and the words of people I trust.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

First, massive client meltdowns at work that dragged out a couple years, starting around 2016.  Since that finally calmed down, I've been working on leaving an abusive relationship of 20 years, with now very troubled children.  I feel like I've been living under a rock the last 4 years.  Even more than usual, that is, given my wife's jealousy and control issues.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Hot mic has been found for the post-debate handshake refusal. About what I expected.

[wierd]

I wouldn't ride in a car him or Biden were driving, would you?

I work with senior care vocationally. Let me fix a few misconceptions about aging you have.

The danger with seniors driving is due to age related loss of visual accuity. It is not due to cogitative decline.

Normal aging does not result in appreciable loss of mental function. Sanders does not have a diagnosis for any condition that would cause such decline. Further, he does not exhibit symptoms of such disorder. (Orange idiot on the other hand...)

As long as mr sanders has good eyesight i would trust him to drive.

Re: hot mic

Yup. Basically the result of stirred up bullshit.

Sanders tells her in confidence that she will have an uphill battle because she is a woman (because sexism in the electorate is a thing.) She intetprets that as "a woman cannot win." Sanders rightly denies that. She gets butthurt.

This kind of petty division is an age old tool. Divide then conquer.  Both Sanders and Warren would be well served to spit that poison out now.

[fqllve]

There's that video of him driving pretty terribly that was just released...

But like... I reject the analogy. The presidency isn't like driving a car, and I don't really think the president is the person behind the wheel necessarily. I trust Sanders to build a better cabinet, to build an administration that better reflects my principles and the direction I want the country to head.

Maybe it's because the line that stuff like this isn't palatable to the American public has been propaganda to prevent us from testing that theory all along, and now that someone like this has actually shown up for real, millions of previously non-voters are suddenly interested in politics.

Every year I come closer and closer to the conclusion that this is how you win elections. Sanders has me legitimately hopeful for the first time in years. I regret not voting for him in 2016.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I work with senior care vocationally. Let me fix a few misconceptions about aging you have.

How about Biden? I certainly agree Sanders doesn't display signs of cognitive decline and Trump does show some, but with Biden it's a little harder to separate the meme from the hard truth. They say he has a lifelong stutter, but personally I found the forgetting what he was saying mid-sentence, slurring words, and specifically repeating adjectives in sentences two or three extra times before proceeding to be, uh...flags closer to the infrared spectrum.

Plus, these debates are happening once the sun is firmly down. Can't make heads or tails of the aggression he shows, since Biden has always been challenging people to push-ups and arm wrestling or shouting at them when pissed off.

[Doomblade187]

Like, I think Warren would be a perfectly effective president still, if not quite as radical as I would like, and she's definitively a far better choice than ya know, everyone left except imo Bernie. I'm actually glad this thing blew up a bit, because this brings attention to media bias against left wing politicians. I expect some salt against Bernie supporters, and Warren supporters, but I don't see this giving the other candidates any support.

[SalmonGod]

Hot mic has been found for the post-debate handshake refusal. About what I expected.

Yeah, I think that's enough to get me to drop any belief I had in Warren.  That's outright... gaslighting's not the right word, but something along those lines.  An abusive way to treat an ally.  Orchestrate an attack on them in public and then accuse them of attacking you when they defend themselves.  The kind of emotional abuse and social control tactic I'm all too familiar with.

For clarity: I still think Warren would likely be the best president we've had in generations, but that's not necessarily a very high bar and doesn't mean she would be adequate to meet the demands of the near future.

[wierd]

Re: biden

Without engaging in a 1:1 conversation with him i cant make a fair asessment.

I would look for signs indicating "time travel" and for difficulty with open ended questions, new concepts, or with rejection of factual information that he disagrees with.  (*time travel in this case, is jumping in and out of different eras, cogitatively speaking. People with some forms of dementia can be here and now one moment then be in 1962 talking about hippies the next.)

[McTraveller]

Or maybe it's because his power levels are off the charts...

I like the mandatory worker share of stock and board representation.  I'd like that to be "minimums" though, not a "target".  Although I don't know why 20% ownership should give 45% of the board.  I guess the rationale is that employees have a higher stake in company operations than the passive income folks?

Workers already have the "right" to buy shuttered factories, if they pool their resources and make an offer. I'm not sure what this bullet is supposed to give - unless this is codifying that workers by default have first right of refusal.

Making buybacks illegal doesn't make much sense, if you keep the 20% worker-owned shares thing apply regardless of total shares outstanding.

I like the requirement to give stock due to automation and outsourcing - that's a unique approach to essentially get UBI without going through the hoops of implementing UBI.  It also solves some problem of "where does UBI get its funding" - because if you are making UBI literally be the ownership of productive capital, that addresses a lot of my philosophical issues with the concept.

[sluissa]

I'll take any of the top 4. Hell, I'd probably even vote for Steyer or Bloomberg over Trump if it comes to it. Williamson was the ONLY one that gave me pause about the "Any democrat over Trump" stance. And thankfully she's out of the race now.

I'm honestly at the point where I'm not fearing a Pence presidency over Trump anymore. Give me Pence. Hell, throw McConnell in there. I don't even fucking care who sits in the office at this point as long as it's not Donald "I haven't rolled a 1 yet!" Trump. I just want someone that's going to... if not be a decent person, at least be slightly less likely to look at other countries like they're fucking pinatas to hit, hoping candy falls out.

I'm not saying Trump is alone in being willing to do that. But I think you'll have to look harder than the current field to find them.


Now, realistically? Despite some of her glaring flaws, I think Warren would make a good president. Buttigieg is my personal favorite at the moment, purely for "He seems like a human and people aren't checking to see if he's still breathing if he takes a nap in a chair." But I'll vote for any of the (hopefully warm) bodies politic that are running.

[Doomblade187]

>Sluissa states support for Buttigieg on Bay12.

Nice knowing you, mate.

[Frumple]

... yeah, I can't see "blatantly lied about minority support" pete getting much support 'round here. Guy's got some pretty serious issues. I sorta' wish he didn't, 'cause, y'know... young. But I'd probably take biden over him at this point and I'd kinda' rather eat raw cat testicles than vote for biden in the primary.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

What do you mean? Bay 12 loves our patriotic friends in the Company, who guard America's virtue from the foreign hoards abroad.