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[McTraveller]

*shrug* I guess I prefer a world where you're free to do whatever, even if it isn't a good idea. And yes, I fully know that's very difficult to implement

I mean people doing Darwin-award stunts aren't a good idea, but I think people should be free to do them.

[Kagus]

Sure, so long as it's only themselves who have to suffer the consequences.

[McTraveller]

Eh, that's a non-starter though. There is no such thing as any activity that doesn't have consequences for other people.  I agree though that there is a difference in degrees of impact - it's hard to make any universal rule because of this.

I mean consider someone doing jackass stunts; they are going to get hurt and use healthcare resources that could be used by someone else.  They are going to put themselves out of work and so change overall social productivity.  They may get really hurt and cause mental health issues for other people.  On the flip side, jackass stunts entertain people, so maybe it lowers overall stress in society... yeah I know that's different than putting 100 or 1000 people out of a job.  But in the long run...hard to say...

Everything is connected....

Also - a local optimum is not necessarily a global optimum....

[Iduno]

I mean consider someone doing jackass stunts; they are going to get hurt and use healthcare resources that could be used by someone else.  They are going to put themselves out of work and so change overall social productivity.  They may get really hurt and cause mental health issues for other people.  On the flip side, jackass stunts entertain people, so maybe it lowers overall stress in society... yeah I know that's different than putting 100 or 1000 people out of a job.  But in the long run...hard to say...

https://twitter.com/dril/status/464802196060917762

[Reelya]

*shrug* I guess I prefer a world where you're free to do whatever, even if it isn't a good idea.

Are we talking about stock buy-backs still? The point I think is that "free to do whatever" only works when it's your own money and you're affecting yourself. Being a CEO and using stock buy-backs to gut a company to enrich yourself from stock options is basically like if you lent your car keys to someone because you trusted them to pick up your kids, but then they decided to trash your car and sell it for parts because they're "free to do whatever".

Set fire to your own car? Sure, free to do whatever. Set fire to a car you've been lent? Not free to do whatever. Lending someone the car keys doesn't mean it's their car. Similarly, the CEOs in these company-gutting cases aren't the owner of the company, they're trustees.

[McTraveller]

I guess I naively believe the SEC already has laws against such insider pump-and-dump mergers-and-acquisition schemes.  But I guess if we do have laws they are full of loopholes or are not enforced.

So, sure, fix the laws. I just think carte-blanche banning stock buybacks is a questionable tool.

[PTTG??]

The fake feud is actually useful. It makes Warren and Bernie make the news without making anything they say all that controversial.

It's the same thing that got Trump the presidency; fake outrage that just acts to increase their notoriety.

[Loud Whispers]

The fake feud is actually useful. It makes Warren and Bernie make the news without making anything they say all that controversial.

It's the same thing that got Trump the presidency; fake outrage that just acts to increase their notoriety.

Ikr, it's all manufactured controversy. We all know in 4 months they're going to release a joint single to makeup before dropping their hot new albums on the back of the feud

[Kagus]

Sanders doesn't drop CDs...

He Berns them.

[Loud Whispers]

I'll just be glad when all the Warren stops and we see peace again

[hector13]

You’ll be Biden your time then.

[sluissa]

Sanders doesn't drop CDs...

He Berns them.

Let us not forget https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Shall_Overcome_(Bernie_Sanders_album)

[Max™]

I guess I naively believe the SEC already has laws against such insider pump-and-dump mergers-and-acquisition schemes.  But I guess if we do have laws they are full of loopholes or are not enforced.

So, sure, fix the laws. I just think carte-blanche banning stock buybacks is a questionable tool.

They were banned until the SEC legalized them in 1982 under Reagan on the questionable premise that letting companies do this, along with lots of other sketchy sounding shit, they would generously spread the wealth around.

Fool me dozens of times, shame on you, fool me dozens more times... well, next time you'll probably do right by me.

More in depth look over how it's just a completely fucked situation for everybody except the handful in a position to skim off the top and bail: https://hbr.org/2014/09/profits-without-prosperity

[sluissa]

Stock buybacks provide at least one useful service. They allow companies that made the mistake of moving moving to a publicly traded company, undo that mistake and revert to private ownership.

There are at least a few examples of companies that were at one point declining, and arguably failing, under shortsighted shareholder leadership, and once the company reverted to private ownership and they could look at the long term again, turned things around to become effective companies again.

(The Dell computer company is one that sticks in my mind.)

I personally think the problem here isn't stock buybacks, it's that we allow easy trading of stocks(and all the more speculative shit that's really really sketchy magic money on paper that goes on) on an open market at all. The point of owning stock in a company shouldn't be looking to see how you can turn it around and sell it for a profit as quickly as possible, it should be as a share of earned profits and voting rights to help steer the direction of the company in order to help increase those future earned profits.

I'm not saying a certain amount of trading is wrong. But once you buy stock in a company, you should be locked in with the fate of that company for a certain amount of time just to guard against people doing sketchy shit like intentionally running a business into the ground for short term profits and the false appearance of value.

[dragdeler]

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