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[Rolan7]

Heh, I was going to point out that gun rights activists weren't really protesting on Martin Luther King day at all, due to Virginia not celebrating MLK day.  But that was based on mistaken information from my mother who grew up there (believing that).  They didn't *actually* abstain from the national holiday... they just chose to celebrate both Lee *and Stonewall Jackson* on that same day.

I'm sure that was as much a coincidence as the gun lobby choosing this "legislatively important" sliding date for an annual protest.  But in 2000 they decided it looked bad, for some reason, and moved Lee-Jackson day to three days prior.  So that's fully cleared up.  They still celebrate guns, but the Confederate commanders got bumped slightly earlier.

Sarcasm aside, polling is showing public support in Virginia for these very basic gun reforms like background checks.  The election was a sweep, giving them the mandate.  You can blame Bloomberg's money, but what's the argument there?  Candidates who take campaign contributions have no mandate, so they shouldn't legislate?  Because if you want campaign finance reform, I fully support that, 100%.  Just not selectively.

[Iduno]

Heh, I was going to point out that gun rights activists weren't really protesting on Martin Luther King day at all, due to Virginia not celebrating MLK day.  But that was based on mistaken information from my mother who grew up there (believing that).  They didn't *actually* abstain from the national holiday... they just chose to celebrate both Lee *and Stonewall Jackson* on that same day.

It's just generically "Confederate Heroes Day" here.

[sluissa]

/beginangrypointlessrant

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Mandate or not, it's no excuse to fuck over a sizable chunk of the population that disagrees with you. Even on something as stupid as how scary their gun looks.

And here's the thing. Both sides are wrong, purely because massive amounts of money are being dumped into misinformation campaigns. One side is attempting to scare pro-gun people about the anti-gun intent. And the other side into scaring anti-gun people into pushing for "reform" no matter how stupid, or how ill-thought, or how ineffective it is.

The argument is literally "Your gun is black, has plastic bits, and is shaped scary. We're gonna make that illegal." and "No, we like our guns black, plastic, and shaped scary." and the response is, "Oh, well, I still want to make them illegal, but I promise I won't enforce it, ok?"

How is that reasonable at ALL? FROM ANY ANGLE!?

Nobody seems to know how to define "assault weapon" in any meaningful manner. Nobody seems to understand that shit like this DRIVES UP gun sales rather than limits them. Nobody seems to understand that when you've got a VERY slim majority and you're passing VERY CONTROVERSIAL SHIT, that it's going to likely get repealed when you piss enough people off and the pendulum swings the other way.

This is all knee jerk reaction to a knee jerk reaction and nobody is thinking long term, nobody is understanding that you've got to meet in the middle somewhere if you want that mandate to last or mean anything. Common sense reform people can get behind. If it was ONLY background checks, it'd probably be an easy bipartisan pass. It's all this extra, poorly thought out shit, written by people who have probably never even touched a gun, much less understand them or the culture around them. But passing shit that helps is not the issue here. The issue is "getting a win over the republicans." That's all that matters to the politicians, because that's all that matters in the way the system works. The way the system works, both sides hate each other so much that there's minimal crossover. There's no chance of ever meeting in the middle for a chance of attracting people from one side over to the other. So the only points you can make politically are with your own party, and so the only things that really benefit you are big showy things that make the other side as mad as possible so that your party feels like they've won a victory. Nobody in power wants to change this shit, the people with money love it because it means they can control the politicians and do their shit while everyone's distracted by issues that don't fucking matter. Meanwhile we're all fucked over.

/angrypointlessrant

sorry...

[McTraveller]

@sluissa:  that is a good example why I prefer performance-based rules, not implementation-based rules.  Don't outlaw guns, outlaw misuse of guns.

Also yes, I realize my view is "idealistic" and that we live in a world of compromise, which is why I understand and accept the  proactive aspects to things like background checks or limited availability of weapons that help avoid misuse of guns.

But any time you make laws so specific (color of plastic? really?) then you are bound to end up with loopholes and "overreach" and all that kind of stuff.

Another less controversial example is the banning of CFL lights, which is a technology, instead of just saying something like "you have to pay an environmental impact fee which scales with watts per lumen".  Or on the flip side "the government can only buy lamps with X watts per lumen or less" rather than saying "the government must by LED lamps".   That is - you tie the rule to performance, not a specific type of something.

My favorite example of this is in my state where you pay glass bottle and can deposits not based on the material of the bottle/can but on the content of the container.

[sluissa]

Just to note, I've seen nothing that says they're specifically going after black plastic guns. But definitions of "Assault weapons" are typically based on largely superficial features like pistol grips, bayonet lugs, and barrel shrouds. And people ARE specifically going after the AR-15 which is known for it's plasticy/painted look which defaults to a dark grey or black color. While other guns out there, that are mechanically similar/the same but styled differently are getting a pass.

[Kagus]

Pistol grips? You mean foregrips? Pistol grips aren't an attachment, they're part of the gun's design.

And also they're great, which is why they're kinda standard

[sluissa]

Pistol grips? You mean foregrips? Pistol grips aren't an attachment, they're part of the gun's design.

And also they're great, which is why they're kinda standard

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

[Kagus]

Pistol grips? You mean foregrips? Pistol grips aren't an attachment, they're part of the gun's design.

And also they're great, which is why they're kinda standard

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

Um. Okay...

So the BAR technically isn't an assault weapon? Brilliant list. Good going, lads.

[Iduno]

/beginangrypointlessrant

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Mandate or not, it's no excuse to fuck over a sizable chunk of the population that disagrees with you. Even on something as stupid as how scary their gun looks.

And here's the thing. Both sides are wrong, purely because massive amounts of money are being dumped into misinformation campaigns. One side is attempting to scare pro-gun people about the anti-gun intent. And the other side into scaring anti-gun people into pushing for "reform" no matter how stupid, or how ill-thought, or how ineffective it is.

The argument is literally "Your gun is black, has plastic bits, and is shaped scary. We're gonna make that illegal." and "No, we like our guns black, plastic, and shaped scary." and the response is, "Oh, well, I still want to make them illegal, but I promise I won't enforce it, ok?"

How is that reasonable at ALL? FROM ANY ANGLE!?

Nobody seems to know how to define "assault weapon" in any meaningful manner. Nobody seems to understand that shit like this DRIVES UP gun sales rather than limits them. Nobody seems to understand that when you've got a VERY slim majority and you're passing VERY CONTROVERSIAL SHIT, that it's going to likely get repealed when you piss enough people off and the pendulum swings the other way.

This is all knee jerk reaction to a knee jerk reaction and nobody is thinking long term, nobody is understanding that you've got to meet in the middle somewhere if you want that mandate to last or mean anything. Common sense reform people can get behind. If it was ONLY background checks, it'd probably be an easy bipartisan pass. It's all this extra, poorly thought out shit, written by people who have probably never even touched a gun, much less understand them or the culture around them. But passing shit that helps is not the issue here. The issue is "getting a win over the republicans." That's all that matters to the politicians, because that's all that matters in the way the system works. The way the system works, both sides hate each other so much that there's minimal crossover. There's no chance of ever meeting in the middle for a chance of attracting people from one side over to the other. So the only points you can make politically are with your own party, and so the only things that really benefit you are big showy things that make the other side as mad as possible so that your party feels like they've won a victory. Nobody in power wants to change this shit, the people with money love it because it means they can control the politicians and do their shit while everyone's distracted by issues that don't fucking matter. Meanwhile we're all fucked over.

/angrypointlessrant

sorry...

@sluissa:  that is a good example why I prefer performance-based rules, not implementation-based rules.  Don't outlaw guns, outlaw misuse of guns.

Also yes, I realize my view is "idealistic" and that we live in a world of compromise, which is why I understand and accept the  proactive aspects to things like background checks or limited availability of weapons that help avoid misuse of guns.

But any time you make laws so specific (color of plastic? really?) then you are bound to end up with loopholes and "overreach" and all that kind of stuff.

One almost wonders if, for some reason, the creation of the laws is performative and the laws themselves are intentionally useless and full of loopholes.

[PTTG??]

I think there may be a fundamental flaw with American lawmaking in that it is too easy to have a horrible case of feature creep due to the rounds of revision laws undergo.

I don't have a better idea, though. Simply requiring that laws cross the gauntlet all in one go or else get scrapped entirely doesn't seem right.

Perhaps it comes down to game theory. If it was somehow possible to make "writing efficient laws through science and consensus" more immediately rewarding to lawmakers...

[sluissa]

Re: Impeachment Trial

The upside is it looks like Trump has either fired every legal expert in the whitehouse that's competent, or he's left them with absolutely nothing to work with. The White House side is choking on the opening statements.

Not that the House managers have done a perfect job, but they've at least got logic on their side.

Not that it will change anything. The final decisions are made, it's just a fight over how long they're going to let people grandstand over it.

[Max™]

I mean, I'm hoping this is the last big hurrah of hateful white folks before they grumblingly accept their new majority-minority status, we can wake up from this 4 year nightmare with a new president, new electoral maps, and start impeaching judges mcconnell rammed through where necessary and appropriate so perhaps we can start working on addressing root causes of things like spree shootings or at least dismantle the terrorist cunts who cheer it on like the NRA.

I was surprised to see some of the senate motions to ram through a maximally streamlined trial failed but Mitch is still being a big ole' bitch and insisting a cover up is the best way to do things.

[nenjin]

https://www.techspot.com/news/83623-joe-biden-calls-game-developers-little-creeps-who.html

It's the kind of careful thinking and wordsmithing I've come to expect from Uncle Joe.

[Iduno]

I mean, I'm hoping this is the last big hurrah of hateful white folks before they grumblingly accept their new majority-minority status, we can wake up from this 4 year nightmare with a new president, new electoral maps, and start impeaching judges mcconnell rammed through where necessary and appropriate so perhaps we can start working on addressing root causes of things like spree shootings or at least dismantle the terrorist cunts who cheer it on like the NRA.

I hope so, too, but I'm guessing we'll end up with one of the two current lead right-wingers doing more of the same.

[Dunamisdeos]

Damn but I hate Biden. He a creepy out of touch asshole, and Trump would eat him alive in an election.

Can't wait for the established Dems to get him the nomination via back-room fiat T_T