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[MetalSlimeHunt]

The reality is that the Democrats don't try so hard not to upset the Republicans because they're deep down more left than they claim. It's because they're deep down more like the Republicans than they're willing to admit.

And that is the truly funny thing about the Republicans - they're so high on their own rhetoric that they really feel like the Democrats are their enemy over basically nothing of substance.

[Reelya]

Quite a few well known preachers in the USA are dead from Covid now, after loudly proclaiming that lockdowns were a conspiracy to destroy the churches. Well they really showed the man the door by turning their congregations into covid incubation chambers.

[hector13]

Hey man, the gubment we’re trying to stop them conning their congregants into loosening their pursestrings for their 4th private jet, wtf do you expect them to do? Actually listen?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I'm not quite so callous as to openly celebrate the death of the elderly in general, but priests, now that's a whole other kettle of ball games.

[Cheesy Honkers]

Comrade Coronavirus is a member of the League of Militant Atheists

[Egan_BW]

The virus was sent by Athe to purge the world of believers.

[Frumple]

The virus was sent by Athe to purge the world of believers.

Seriously though, can we not with that? I'm pretty sure I've literally heard shit like that since all this started, and fuckers going that crazy are actually killing people and shit. So, just. Save it for after we've finished burying people

[thompson]

The reality is that the Democrats don't try so hard not to upset the Republicans because they're deep down more left than they claim. It's because they're deep down more like the Republicans than they're willing to admit.

And that is the truly funny thing about the Republicans - they're so high on their own rhetoric that they really feel like the Democrats are their enemy over basically nothing of substance.

Pfft. They don’t “try too hard” because they’re all bought and paid for by the same people who own the Republican Party. Well, ok, not really. Oil and Christianity own the R’s, while Tech own the D’s. Parma and Wall St have large stakes in both. Policy reflects that. And they’ve done a pretty damn good job enriching those stakeholders, so let’s cut the crap about them not doing their jobs.

Or did you think that they actually gave a shit about you?

Edit for nuance:

The real issue is that there is an inherent conflict of interest between a political party’s core base and their “financial base”. This conflict tends to be greater for left-leaning parties as left-wing policies tend to directly conflict with the interests of the sorts of people who can afford to throw a few mil at a political party. Similar tensions also exist on the right (notably with regards to outsourcing of labour and migration), it’s just not as severe. These tensions lead to internal conflict, which makes the afflicted parties look chaotic and incompetent. Interestingly, it looks like the Republicans have entered a period of internal division similar to what the Democrats have been dealing with for some time now. None of it is really new, it’s just occurring to a greater degree than it was before.

[SalmonGod]

But when Democrats actually occupy positions of power and do things.... like, for example, writing a $3 Trillion bill that bails out debt collection agencies and lobbying firms and offers on average $100k worth of tax deductions to people worth more than $1 million but then mysteriously can't afford to offer more than $1200 in aid to the average person?... it exposes the lie behind the roleplay, and makes the party's role in defending the status quo more difficult.

Not going to respond to everything (as I think it's an argument we're not going to persuade each other about), but just wanted to seek clarification: is the above referring to the big coronavirus package (CARES)?

I'm referring to the HEROES Act.  The next proposed stimulus bill that was supposedly put together almost entirely by Pelosi and her staff.  I know Democrats don't currently have the power to pass whatever they want.  But they do have control over what they personally write and propose.  Pelosi is in a prominent and powerful position, and consistently uses it to initiate negotiations with pathetic lowballs that ensure the actual final outcome will be terrible and otherwise actively prevent good things.

Oil and Christianity own the R’s, while Tech own the D’s. Parma and Wall St have large stakes in both. Policy reflects that.

Oil owns the D, too.

Here's Obama bragging to a crowd about what a friend he's been to the oil industry.  And not in some vague crowd-pleasing platitudes, but with specifics -- expansion of land availability to the oil industry, fast-tracking approvals, and general increases in production.  This is two years after Deepwater Horizon, a disaster which Obama actually bears some direct responsibility for as his appointee to Secretary of the Interior, Ken Salazar, had a history of supporting the erosion of environmental regulations on the oil industry, and granted the Deepwater Horizon rig an exclusion from a legally required environmental impact review only a year before the disaster.

[Dostoevsky]

I'm referring to the HEROES Act.  The next proposed stimulus bill that was supposedly put together almost entirely by Pelosi and her staff.  I know Democrats don't currently have the power to pass whatever they want.  But they do have control over what they personally write and propose.  Pelosi is in a prominent and powerful position, and consistently uses it to initiate negotiations with pathetic lowballs that ensure the actual final outcome will be terrible and otherwise actively prevent good things.

Ah yeah, I forgot that HEROES has another $1200 in it. (They did amend the lobbying firm bit at the Rules committee, albeit imperfectly.)

HEROES does have some further provisions for 'the average person' - there's the 'premium pay' provisions for essential workers, the tax section has a bunch of EITC stuff that I admittedly don't have much expertise on, medicaid provisions, an extension of unemployment benefits for another ~6 months, and other bits and pieces.

(In my opinion the whole 'premium pay' thing is something of a sad farce. Hazard pay of $13/hour minimum wage, with a cap on total earnings at that rate?)

And it wasn't just a Pelosi package - committee leadership were involved in various portions of it. (Of course, most of the committee leadership does not err leftward on the political scale.)

As to your point of what they write and propose, the theory is that if they go 'too far left' their proposal gets laughed off by the Senate & WH and becomes a waste of effort. See: much of the House counterpart to CARES, which was casually dismissed and ignored. (Also see: 99.9% of what House Republicans did during the Obama administration.) Heck, HEROES is already getting ignored by the Senate, at least for the next few weeks, because McConnell almost-literally wants to see people suffer more before moving to the next round of aid.

Oil owns the D, too.

Obama was pretty bad in his first term on oil (and other environmental topics), yeah, but did get better later on. I assume he was viewing things through a cynical 2012 reelection campaign lens.

[Bumber]

Heck, HEROES is already getting ignored by the Senate, at least for the next few weeks, because McConnell almost-literally wants to see people suffer more before moving to the next round of aid.

They would easily pass a bill that contained just the $1200 checks (only $10 billion of the $3 trillion) and the bailouts/loans for small businesses. They said as much while criticizing Pelosi for keeping the House on "vacation" (during the whole "ice cream" drama.)

It's the stuff about voting and immigration policy that makes the bill dead on arrival to the Senate. Right-wing news squawks about ballot harvesting and lack of election integrity if people don't vote in person. GOP is obviously against giving any money to illegal immigrants (even though they secretly love the cheap labor.)

[Dostoevsky]

Heck, HEROES is already getting ignored by the Senate, at least for the next few weeks, because McConnell almost-literally wants to see people suffer more before moving to the next round of aid.

They would easily pass a bill that contained just the $1200 checks (only $10 billion of the $3 trillion) and the bailouts/loans for small businesses. They said as much while criticizing Pelosi for keeping the House on "vacation" (during the whole "ice cream" drama.)

It's the stuff about voting and immigration policy that makes the bill dead on arrival to the Senate. Right-wing news squawks about ballot harvesting and lack of election integrity if people don't vote in person. GOP is obviously against giving any money to illegal immigrants (even though they secretly love the cheap labor.)

This bill's arc is turning out a bit different from HEROES, at least from what I've heard. The word in the region is that McConnell 'is waiting for the stock market to look more like the job market' before taking action this time. (Some are reporting that they're going to wait until some of the provisions from CARES start expiring, which could be June at the earliest.)

[Iduno]

I'm not quite so callous as to openly celebrate the death of the elderly in general, but priests, now that's a whole other kettle of ball games.

Hey now. Think of the children who are going unmolested during these trying times.

Heck, HEROES is already getting ignored by the Senate, at least for the next few weeks, because McConnell almost-literally wants to see people suffer more before moving to the next round of aid.

They would easily pass a bill that contained just the $1200 checks (only $10 billion of the $3 trillion) and the bailouts/loans for small businesses. They said as much while criticizing Pelosi for keeping the House on "vacation" (during the whole "ice cream" drama.)

Also remember that "small businesses" that benefited were mostly just small companies who are owned by large conglomerates. Actual small businesses didn't have the political pull to get their applications in before the money ran out.

[Bumber]

Also remember that "small businesses" that benefited were mostly just small companies who are owned by large conglomerates. Actual small businesses didn't have the political pull to get their applications in before the money ran out.

The fix I heard is to limit it to businesses that don't have access to other means of getting enough money. Not sure what the wording would be legislation-wise.

[Iduno]

Also remember that "small businesses" that benefited were mostly just small companies who are owned by large conglomerates. Actual small businesses didn't have the political pull to get their applications in before the money ran out.

The fix I heard is to limit it to businesses that don't have access to other means of getting enough money. Not sure what the wording would be legislation-wise.

Or why legislators wouldn't just keep passing money off to whoever is represented by the lobbyist willing to donate the most money back.