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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 3532425 times)

wierd

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #36945 on: May 25, 2020, 02:09:05 am »

The mistake you are making, is in believing that I *WANT* to off anyone.

No.  I do not want to at all. Nobody.  What I see though, is that our current political climate requires the electorate to get what they vote for.

That does not mean I want it.

Good night sir or madam.  It matters not at all to me.  What matters, is that you are judgemental to a fault.


Out of curiosity, what sexuality do you think I am?  I'll give you a clue-- it is not heteronormative.

In the bible-thumping nazi world, I would be in the fire right along with you.  Does not change the reality of the world as I see it.  If I felt there was an alternative, I would be right there ponying for it, very very hard.

I do not see such an out.  All I see is a dark time ahead, where the world has to realize that what it wants, is not what it thinks it will get.  Much like how Europe *WANTED* the first world war, and regretted it afterward.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 02:12:11 am by wierd »
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The Ensorceler

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #36946 on: May 25, 2020, 02:32:31 am »

What you want is irrelevant when you campaign for the baddies and actively egg on their going full nazi. You've also argued for making sure as many places as possible have the maximum number of dead from Covid 19. I don't care *why* you do a genocide. I don't care if you'll be hurt too. Just don't do a genocide.
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Max™

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #36947 on: May 25, 2020, 02:39:09 am »

I'm disappointed in every one of you, I know DS9 is pretty old by now but it's been on BBC regularly, yet nobody shared the wisdom of Garak?

The lesson of the boy who cried wolf is to never tell the same lie twice.
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wierd

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #36948 on: May 25, 2020, 02:48:31 am »

NOPE.

That is how you PERCIEVE it.

What I am advocating, is to not offer my support to stop it, and been trying (vainly), to explain why.


From your perspective, any action other than "RESIST! BEND OVER AND TAKE IT WITHOUT LUBE IF YOU MUST, BUT RESIST!", is seen as "WORKING FOR THEM!!!!"

No.


From my perspective, it looks like this:

At the very best, you will satisfy the caricature they have painted for you, as the obstructionist badguy, standing in the way of their glorious future.  At the worst, you will fail, and having resisted them, they will destroy you mercilessly, and then destroy themselves too.

I suggest instead:  Be mindful-- They are going to get what they want, regardless of what you do to try to stop them. When they do, they *ARE* going to destroy the world as we know it.  All the signs are there, both politically, economically, sociologically, and ecologically. They have a mass-delusion, and they are acting on it, collectively. It will destroy everything. You cannot stop it.

Faced with that, and presented with the outright rejection of what was possibly the last viable political out with the progressive movement upswing, and the imposition of Biden, who at best represents slow death by stagnation, outright hypocrisy against actual minorities and alternative sexuality, and who has a proven track record of not standing up for a single fucking issue, ever--

No.  The world is GOING to burn.  I simply refuse to pretend it wont, and likewise will not add wood or fuel to the stacked up kindling by voting for Trump.


The Maga hat wearers that want to force some horrible vision of a glorious christian nation, where gay does not happen, where black does not exist, and where women cook and clean like in the old days---  will push for that vision of "perfection" until they finally get it. Due to the divisionist bullshit of our political system, people like you and I, that should be allies, are forced into opposition.  Further, it estranges them from us, so we cannot reach them with any kind of reason, so that their political masters can make them dance a merry jig at the polls.

Honestly-- When the fuckers succeed, I would be one of the people trying to help hide people like you, so that they CANNOT kill you.  I am not advocating for your death;  I am advocating for them to get what they want, so they experience the horrors it brings, so that FINALLY, they understand how wrong they were.  They are unable to conceive of how what they want is destructive, because they have been driven to such an extreme ideological position, that co-existence is not possible.  They have to hit rock bottom, and have no-one to help them, before they will accept that hand offered to them.  I want that hand to be a loving, and inclusive one, that includes gay people.

We will not get to that point, without the pain and suffering.  I do not want the pain and suffering, and ***HATE*** that it has come to this.  I want them to come to their senses, so we can have a better life, that does not revolve around divisionism.  To that end, I FUCKING HATE gender identity politics.  You are a person; All people have value. Nobody deserves to suffer the gulag.  To that end, when the Nazi's come, I will help you--- regardless.  Just don't presume that because I perceive a dark future, that means that I yearn for it.
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ZBridges

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #36949 on: May 25, 2020, 02:55:51 am »

Who are "they," these people that will destroy the entire world?
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wierd

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #36950 on: May 25, 2020, 03:03:54 am »

People like Mitch McConnell and Co.

The ones that would rather sacrifice thousands of lives on the altar of mammon, than acknowledge that their economic pseudo-religion is poison, and that their views about what is needed in a society are so off base, that it will destroy the world.

You know, like how they have been gutting the EPA more and more each year Trump has been in office?


YEAH, those people.
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SalmonGod

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #36951 on: May 25, 2020, 03:07:30 am »

Reminder that we are literally teetering on the edge of apocalypse right now.  Harm reduction arguments really don't mean much in this context. 

And the types of harm that Democrats and Republicans are united on is much greater in reach and scale than the fascist violence that Republicans want to add on top.  For example, the largely bipartisan/Biden-fostered prison-industrial complex does far more violence to people of color in the USA than any gestapo has or likely could.  It may be less aesthetically alarming when that violence isn't accompanied by clearly expressed race war mission statements laced with personal hatred.  But it's violence all the same. 

I have a son who's Type 1 diabetic.  Without drastic healthcare reform, it is an inevitability that it will be the death of him one day, when his medication becomes unaffordable, and there will be a Holocaust worth of other diabetics with him.  He was diagnosed 10 years ago.  The cost of insulin has more than tripled in that time alone, and it's not going to stop.  That's just one health condition.  Democrats make it increasingly clear that they aren't going to do anything about it.

Continuing to do the same thing we have done every election for generations isn't harm reduction.  We are on a path to hell.  Voting for small improvements to the path itself is not harm reduction if our destination is still hell.

I fear Trump much less than I fear nothing changing.  If nothing changes, Trump himself won't matter at all.  There will just be another Trump.  He is a manifestation of the desperation and resentment of the populace failed by our bipartisan authoritarian warmongering psychologically abusive neoliberal dystopia.

As an outsider is seemed more like it spent months fawning over Bernie and his campaign (and not gonna lie as a non-american I'm baffled by how much you guys near-worship some of your politicians). And while it may have been trying to involve the rest of the country it wasn't adjusting to it. Repetition and doubling down does not count as cooperating with everyone else, regardless of volume. Simply put, it looks like all these criticisms of centrists and how uncooperative they are with the left applies the other way round as well. I have no doubts that if Bernie won people on the left would be accusing the centrists of sour grapes for not enthusiastically jumping aboard the Bernie bus as it existed.

Biden has done more than Bernie did to try to reach out to the other side of the party. And before anyone says he hasn't done much there, yeah that's my point. It's a low bar.


Yeah, no... Bernie is the compromise.  He is not a radical candidate.  What he represents would be a great improvement over the political status quo I've known my whole life, but nowhere close to what I and others like me actually want.  Not even 1/4 of the way there.  My personal politics are radical, within the context of America's Overton Window, and I accept that.  And I think a decent portion of Bernie supporters are with me in that respect.  What Bernie represents to me is the bare minimum improvement in the direction of our national politics necessary to save civilization from rising fascism and impending economic and environmental collapse, while still having any hope in a national election within our current context.  Bernie is the compromise.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 03:10:45 am by SalmonGod »
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DemonOfWrath

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #36952 on: May 25, 2020, 03:17:34 am »

One other thing to remember is, with another 4 years of Mitch+Donald stacking the supreme court you probably won't have any hope that any legislation to reverse that garbage will survive the courts. For decades, considering their goal is young ultra conservatives.

When you have like a hundred court spots open and almost certainly one supreme court spot minimum (RBG lasting four more years is iffy at best), getting at least one of those positions out of their grimy mitts is really really vital. And while there's potential worlds where Mitch sticks around in control even if Trump loses, I really doubt there's outcomes where Trump wins but the senate flips to 51-49 from 47-53.

Ultimately persistent change requires both getting legislation through, and having it stick. If the courts get so stacked that the latter is impossible (it's already difficult to say the least with the current 5-4 balance, imagine 6-3 or 7-2) who cares if you get your dream candidate elected in the future, they won't be able to actually do much.
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wierd

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #36953 on: May 25, 2020, 03:19:19 am »

^
This is why I said they *WILL* get what they want.  You cannot stop them, because the DNC wont walk back any of the shit they have succeeded in getting.

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The Ensorceler

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #36954 on: May 25, 2020, 05:14:10 am »

The House says differently. It says it strenuously. Preventing future abuses is wildly popular right now. The GOP can't even muster a plurality of voters in the elections it wins, it's vulnerable as hell if you stop enabling the voter suppression.
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wierd

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #36955 on: May 25, 2020, 05:18:32 am »

When I see the DNC actually use the power of fillibuster, and actually press to walk back the abuses, then and only then, will I have even a glimmer of hope that they are serious.

Until then, they are going to be treated like they have been demonstrating themselves to be-- GOP Lite.  The lower calorie, less extreme form of social and economic death.
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Frumple

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #36956 on: May 25, 2020, 06:39:12 am »

Yeah, no... Bernie is the compromise.  He is not a radical candidate.
Just a demonstrably shitty one, unfortunately. Hopefully next time we'll get a compromise candidate that isn't a geriatric that loses to clintons and fucking similarly geriatric bidens. I hope if he runs again, y'all will join me in flipping my shit and demanding someone goddamn else. He blocks younger leftward folks from running again I'ma friggin' riot.

Though the statement you were quoting was less about, well, what you responded with, and more about bernie failing to build the bridges he needed to, to make up for being an ancient self-proclaimed communist vocally hostile to the democrat establishment. Guy fucked up pretty hard at pretty key points in the lead up to the primary voters deciding he was even worse an option the biden is, in ways that, like... makes him solidly losing the way he did super unsurprising. Media was milking or ginning up conflict between his campaign and other folks, sure, but there were plenty of self-owns involved, too. Which, y'know. Sucks.
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McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #36957 on: May 25, 2020, 08:36:13 am »

The cost of insulin has more than tripled in that time alone, and it's not going to stop.  That's just one health condition. 
Pretty sure insulin has been around for 100 years or so. Why not get 1000 of your closest Type 1 friends to create a company to produce insulin for themselves?  I'm only being half-facetious here: There is nothing physically stopping this from happening.  Unless the government is actively saying "no we will not allow anyone else to start production, we won't even consider giving an FDA license, etc" I don't understand what the argument is here.

This goes to the stuff I posted earlier about wondering about just what it is that people want "the government" to do.  Do you really expect the government to force people to make insulin (or any other product) at some decreed cost?  Price controls never turn out well, and forcing people to create things at a price they think is too low is slavery.
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Iduno

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #36958 on: May 25, 2020, 08:49:49 am »

Well, the Democratic voters who don't support his policies aren't obliged to support him. I definitely agree that a Biden presidency would be less destructive than a Trump one, but I'm not exactly excited for it, ya know.

Edit: look, my point is that Biden and campaign have done nothing to reach out to the entire fucking third to a half of the party that didn't support them. And that's a problem..

Well, he did say not to vote for him if you don't like rape, like the environment, don't support DOMA, think the poor should be helped, and aren't more racist than Trump fans. So he's said some things I agree with.


i vote less evil, because less evil is more gooder

Nah, that just tells them how much evil to start with. It's been known for centuries that going with the lesser evil only rewards evil.


I'll take enforce fair voting and destroy the GOP forever, please. If Trump wins he'll veto everything congress passes and his base will rally.

Those are not bittersweet. Those are death. Corporate welfare is fully intact, and the megarich are global. They will never lose power without a small-d democratic push to shut them down. That means not voting for nazi massacre of your comrades.

I'm not sure where you're getting the insane claim that Biden isn't more likely to kill everyone off. He's spent the last 40 years ruining/ending lives in congress in the name of profit. Blue MAGA isn't an improvement over Red MAGA.


One other thing to remember is, with another 4 years of Mitch+Donald stacking the supreme court you probably won't have any hope that any legislation to reverse that garbage will survive the courts. For decades, considering their goal is young ultra conservatives.

When you have like a hundred court spots open and almost certainly one supreme court spot minimum (RBG lasting four more years is iffy at best), getting at least one of those positions out of their grimy mitts is really really vital. And while there's potential worlds where Mitch sticks around in control even if Trump loses, I really doubt there's outcomes where Trump wins but the senate flips to 51-49 from 47-53.

Ultimately persistent change requires both getting legislation through, and having it stick. If the courts get so stacked that the latter is impossible (it's already difficult to say the least with the current 5-4 balance, imagine 6-3 or 7-2) who cares if you get your dream candidate elected in the future, they won't be able to actually do much.

What makes you think the Democrats care who ends up in the courts? They either support the same people, or don't care enough to do anything about it.
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martinuzz

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #36959 on: May 25, 2020, 10:26:29 am »

So Trump made another step on the ladder towards authoritorian dictatorship, by accusing Joe Scarborough of a murder that was never committed (forensic investigation showed the deceased had died of cerebral hemorrhage after she fainted from a heart condition.

Inb4 reporters that criticize Trump get evidence of a crime planted in their homes and locked up in black sites.

Does a president also have immunity from defamation and slander lawsuits?
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