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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 3535233 times)

Zangi

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37110 on: May 30, 2020, 04:10:40 pm »

That's just one of the business owners. Things aren't so great for the guy in the first link.

And to be clear, riots are going to be chaotic and things that shouldn't happen will happen.  Participation isn't controlled.  Lots of people involved aren't exactly intellectual.  There will be those who don't care and just take advantage to get away with stuff they couldn't normally.

My point isn't that everything is well managed and fine and everyone's going to be happy.  My point is that any narrative which chooses to focus purely on the negative aspects is incomplete and flawed.
And such narratives play to the delegitimization of the original cause in the eyes of those looking in from outside and for the greater national conscious to forget/shove it under the rug and go back to business as usual.
Cause hey, 'criminals' right?  They don't deserve much thought other then the deserved police brutality and maximum punishment.
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Iduno

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37111 on: May 30, 2020, 04:15:11 pm »

Thats sounds so surreal. If it were my store I would be livid. Guess the dude has a good insurance or is using this as free publicity for the afterwards?

It could be that he too is simply outraged by the very unnecesary and viciusly cruel death of George Floyd. Hell even we are outraged and wish that cop gets the same treatment, but is farfetched to just allow or even be happy with your propieties being burn down.

Regardless of the stance of the owner, setting things on fire is dangerous, period.

His store and a local store next to the police station that burned were spared. The original protestors protected local businesses, and he recognizes that. It was tagged with "locally owned" and left alone until now, so I'm guessing it was the original protestors who lit it up.

It's too bad the Geneva conventions don't apply to protests, because the cops have been targeting uninvolved journalists and medics.
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scriver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37112 on: May 30, 2020, 04:33:05 pm »

Thats sounds so surreal. If it were my store I would be livid. Guess the dude has a good insurance or is using this as free publicity for the afterwards?

It could be that he too is simply outraged by the very unnecesary and viciusly cruel death of George Floyd. Hell even we are outraged and wish that cop gets the same treatment, but is farfetched to just allow or even be happy with your propieties being burn down.

Regardless of the stance of the owner, setting things on fire is dangerous, period.

Just consider the context.  He's part of a minority that's experienced centuries of brutal systemic oppression.  Police are now the 6th leading cause of death for young men in America, and black men are 2.5x more likely to be killed by police than white men.  America has the largest prison population in the history of the world, which is used for forced labor and private profit.  That prison population is overwhelmingly made up of minorities due to unequal enforcement and sentencing.  And there is audio recording from an interview with the domestic policy chief of the administration that started the drug war openly admitting that it was intended to be a way to oppress minorities.

Quote
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people," former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman told Harper's writer Dan Baum for the April cover story published Tuesday.

"You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities," Ehrlichman said. "We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."

Despite this, the drug war is still ongoing today.  No following administration has chosen to end it.  And the way politics has played out over the last 2 elections makes it clear there is no end in sight by within-the-system means.

Is it really surprising that someone who has lived their life within such a context, who has likely gone through his life watching friends and family get beaten up, kidnapped, or killed, is ok with major sacrifices if it means any chance of challenging the power structure responsible?

Do you not recognise that there is a difference between black americans and (I'm assuming from the restaurant name and what his surname sounds like here) Indian demographics?
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SalmonGod

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37113 on: May 30, 2020, 04:42:06 pm »

Thats sounds so surreal. If it were my store I would be livid. Guess the dude has a good insurance or is using this as free publicity for the afterwards?

It could be that he too is simply outraged by the very unnecesary and viciusly cruel death of George Floyd. Hell even we are outraged and wish that cop gets the same treatment, but is farfetched to just allow or even be happy with your propieties being burn down.

Regardless of the stance of the owner, setting things on fire is dangerous, period.

Just consider the context.  He's part of a minority that's experienced centuries of brutal systemic oppression.  Police are now the 6th leading cause of death for young men in America, and black men are 2.5x more likely to be killed by police than white men.  America has the largest prison population in the history of the world, which is used for forced labor and private profit.  That prison population is overwhelmingly made up of minorities due to unequal enforcement and sentencing.  And there is audio recording from an interview with the domestic policy chief of the administration that started the drug war openly admitting that it was intended to be a way to oppress minorities.

Quote
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people," former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman told Harper's writer Dan Baum for the April cover story published Tuesday.

"You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities," Ehrlichman said. "We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."

Despite this, the drug war is still ongoing today.  No following administration has chosen to end it.  And the way politics has played out over the last 2 elections makes it clear there is no end in sight by within-the-system means.

Is it really surprising that someone who has lived their life within such a context, who has likely gone through his life watching friends and family get beaten up, kidnapped, or killed, is ok with major sacrifices if it means any chance of challenging the power structure responsible?

Do you not recognise that there is a difference between black americans and (I'm assuming from the restaurant name and what his surname sounds like here) Indian demographics?

You're right, I wasn't paying attention there.

So they appreciate all of the above despite not being subject to all of it themselves, though probably have some experience with racism.  Allow me to edit and make the same point.

Quote
Just consider the context.  Police are now the 6th leading cause of death for young men in America, and black men are 2.5x more likely to be killed by police than white men.  America has the largest prison population in the history of the world, which is used for forced labor and private profit.  That prison population is overwhelmingly made up of minorities due to unequal enforcement and sentencing.  And there is audio recording from an interview with the domestic policy chief of the administration that started the drug war openly admitting that it was intended to be a way to oppress minorities.

Quote
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people," former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman told Harper's writer Dan Baum for the April cover story published Tuesday.

"You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities," Ehrlichman said. "We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."

Despite this, the drug war is still ongoing today.  No following administration has chosen to end it.  And the way politics has played out over the last 2 elections makes it clear there is no end in sight by within-the-system means.

Is it really surprising that someone aware of the above who has a conscience would be ok with major sacrifices if it means any chance of challenging the power structure responsible?
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Bumber

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37114 on: May 30, 2020, 06:24:38 pm »

Do you not recognise that there is a difference between black americans and (I'm assuming from the restaurant name and what his surname sounds like here) Indian demographics?

I think the article said he's from Somalia. I assume it's one of those Black Musilm names.
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SalmonGod

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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

LordBaal

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37117 on: May 31, 2020, 12:27:49 am »

Sure socialim or comunism would fix things up... sure.

Dunno if this is what this guy proposes but is certanly stupid to blame capitalism. If we start counting corpses by economic systems capitalism would be a loser on that regard.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2020, 12:31:09 am by LordBaal »
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Frumple

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37118 on: May 31, 2020, 12:37:19 am »

Uh, that's pretty questionable. Capitalism's killed a fuckton of people, it's just maybe better at shirking the blame for it.

Though I guess if you mean loser the one with the highest body count then maybe, ha.

Some sort of mixed economy probably is the way to go, though. Market stuff's useful under some circumstances, but you got to keep that shit on a tight leash and away from anything super important or things start deteriorating.

E: Though I think that edit went from the loser to a loser, which would probably be more accurate. Most of the major economic ideologies have a pile of bodies behind them that'd make a european colonist blush at this point, really...
« Last Edit: May 31, 2020, 12:40:43 am by Frumple »
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SalmonGod

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37119 on: May 31, 2020, 02:27:44 am »

Sure socialim or comunism would fix things up... sure.

Dunno if this is what this guy proposes but is certanly stupid to blame capitalism. If we start counting corpses by economic systems capitalism would be a loser on that regard.

I disagree.  But instead of bickering about it, let me ask you this.

Do you disagree with what the guy describes in that thread?  If not, what would be your response to him?  Sorry but you gotta take it for the team because socialism bad?
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
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In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

martinuzz

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37120 on: May 31, 2020, 04:12:01 am »

Dunno if this is what this guy proposes but is certanly stupid to blame capitalism. If we start counting corpses by economic systems capitalism would be a loser on that regard.
Lol no. Just for starters, capitalism kills over 10000 children every day and has done so for 50 years. (they die of starvation). That alone well exceeds the genocides of Hitler and Stalin combined in death count.
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

ZBridges

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37121 on: May 31, 2020, 04:13:40 am »

Source?
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martinuzz

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37122 on: May 31, 2020, 04:16:10 am »

Here's one from the UN.
https://www.un.org/esa/socdev/poverty/documents/boep_10_2003_EN.pdf

Quote
24000 people died every day of hunger, of whom 16000 were children

That's close to 6 million children per year.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2020, 04:20:54 am by martinuzz »
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

dragdeler

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37123 on: May 31, 2020, 04:20:08 am »

-
« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 01:21:15 pm by dragdeler »
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martinuzz

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #37124 on: May 31, 2020, 04:26:02 am »

Hitler's holocaust and Stalin's holodomor are child's play compared to the corporate machine's grinding gears
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479
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