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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 3534999 times)

Frumple

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42300 on: November 26, 2020, 07:25:45 pm »

You dont have a political inhabilitation thingy? That is the judicial power deems someone unfit of any public position (elected ones at least) for a set ammount of years or for life.
Far as I'm aware, more or less no, with some variation based on position. So far as presidency goes, the entirety of its requirements are defined in the constitution. There's no legal definition of unfit for POTUS outside failing those or something like impeachment or that one amendment I'm forgetting number of there basically for if the president falls into a coma.

Fundamentally, though, fitness for the POTUS boils down to "can your ass get elected" . If yes, that's that. You can be impeached afterwards but you're going to be POTUS even if you're clinically insane and currently in a jail cell or somethin'.
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42301 on: November 26, 2020, 08:11:38 pm »

There's also a constitutional ban on so-called "bills of attainder," basically laws that would declare a certain individual(s) guilty of a crime or punishing a certain individual(s). So congress couldn't pass e.g. a 'no more Donald Trump in office' or 'no more loans for Donald Trump' law.

And, since nobody else mentioned it here yet, today Trump gave America a Thanksgiving gift by saying he will leave the White House if the electoral college votes for Biden:

Quote
“Certainly I will. Certainly I will. And you know that.”

“But I think that there will be a lot of things happening between now and the 20th of January. A lot of things,” he said. “Massive fraud has been found. We’re like a third world country.”

(Technically speaking the electoral college votes on December 14th, then Congress counts and confirms it on January 6th.)
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feelotraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42302 on: November 26, 2020, 09:53:52 pm »

SCOTUS also had a little gift, of the poisoned chalice variety.

https://www.newsweek.com/supreme-court-bars-covid-restrictions-religious-services-1550464

Basically in a reversal from earlier decisions in California and Nevada - really the replacement of Ginsburg by Barrett - the ruling held that the state of New York was not justified in imposing capacity limits for houses of worship on the basis of expert medical advice.  Seems that religious fanaticism trumps covid containment measures.

Realistically of little immediate impact with the thanksgiving superspreader event in progress anyways, but it's still an ill portent for the future.
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hector13

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42303 on: November 26, 2020, 10:46:37 pm »

Black Friday tomorrow too.

I was initially worried about it, working in retail, but I recently got covid and recovered, so hopefully my body is still in “KILL THE COVID” mode and I’ll be cool.

Everyone else is fuuuuucked though.
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Look, we need to raise a psychopath who will murder God, we have no time to be spending on cooking.

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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42304 on: November 26, 2020, 11:46:30 pm »

@Reelya
Generally, you'd be putting clingwrap over a container, though. You're still going to have to wash that container, so you might as well be throwing a tupperware lid in with it.

I was going off what delphonso wrote, that his wife uses cling-wrap instead of tupperware to avoid washing it. What you're saying is a valid scenario, but kind of tangential to what I was responding to.

Duuvian

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42305 on: November 27, 2020, 01:43:31 am »

SCOTUS also had a little gift, of the poisoned chalice variety.

I agree with this assessment.

I do believe that Gov. Cuomo's restrictions on house of worship were unfair as many secular businesses were not regulated in the same way.

However I do honestly believe the USC has set a difficult precedent should when another pandemic occurs. This plague has been devestating and it has a low mortality rate compared to something like Ebola...

The court didn't strike down limitations on attendence from what I've read, as an opinion (can't remember by who) noted that limitations not aimed solely at placs of worship could still be constitutional.

however a majority opinion worryingly stated that if there is controversy between public safety and the practice of religion that a judge's duty is to disregard public health experts for fear of hindering the practice of religion.

While I am not religious or feel particularly spiritual even, my thought is that were I to be, that the place of religion would be less important to me than the cost to one's own community should attending put other people in danger. I suppose that would make for a poor priest though:


I do hope that this does not hinder pandemic prevention in the future. This pandemic is tragic in so many ways; it would be a mistake not to use it as EXCELLENT PRACTICE in order to not shame ourselves and those who have been lost by making our situation more woeful for the next instance.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 01:51:29 am by Duuvian »
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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42306 on: November 27, 2020, 01:51:05 am »

However I do honestly believe the USC has set a difficult precedent should when another pandemic occurs. This plague has been devestating and it has a low mortality rate compared to something like Ebola...

Actually the low mortality rate was part of the problem. Compare SARS and MERS, much more deadly but killed a lot less people. It's because of asymptomatic or lightly symptomatic carriers: you don't get many of those with the really deadly strains. So, there's is some point where you get a virus of this type that kills the most people, but it's not necessarily just upping the mortality rate.

Duuvian

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42307 on: November 27, 2020, 01:53:12 am »

However I do honestly believe the USC has set a difficult precedent should when another pandemic occurs. This plague has been devestating and it has a low mortality rate compared to something like Ebola...

Actually the low mortality rate was part of the problem. Compare SARS and MERS, much more deadly but killed a lot less people. It's because of asymptomatic or lightly symptomatic carriers: you don't get many of those with the really deadly strains.

Oh I knew that. I was around for the Ebola discussion in which the high mortality rate and severe symptoms were cause for calm as odd as that sounds. People got very sick very quickly and had a limited window to spread the disease before they were obviously incredibly ill.

However, an Ebola strain that incubated while transmissible (not a disease expert so I don't know if that would be possible with that virus) for a week would be hell on Earth.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 01:55:33 am by Duuvian »
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Sort of finished and awaiting remix due to loss of most recent song file before addition of drums:
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Max™

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42308 on: November 27, 2020, 07:27:18 am »

When a virus kills off too many people it infects it's self-limiting from the start unless it has some way to continue transmission despite dead carriers, which is an alarming thought because it is one of the only ways any zombie nonsense would ever make any sort of sense.

COVID killing so many people while leaving the vast majority alive and able to keep spreading it is "better business" from the hypothetical perspective of a virus trying to continue replicating itself.

It's also less of an issue if the virus merely weakens a host possibly for life, as long as said host was able to pass the infection along, and while death is scary, long covid feels a bit scarier and is yet another reason I'm fully in the "don't fuck around, avoid it at all costs" camp.

Regarding the pardon thing, Flynn losing the ability to refuse to testify about Trump on 5th amendment grounds? Fucking hilarious self-own by Trump there, love it.

As for future pardons? I've never encountered someone seriously suggesting this was remotely possible, though I've seen numerous lawyers explain the whole "at any point after the crime, regardless of it being discovered/charges filed/conviction gotten, but any continuing criminal activity, even if exactly the same as previously pardoned for, is a new crime and not covered by said pardon" distinction with various sources from relevant cases testing the otherwise few limits on the pardon power.

Saw an interesting take on the wording itself, because it doesn't say "may pardon anyone" like one might expect, it says "may grant a pardon" and granting something to yourself is a hell of a linguistic kludge.
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da_nang

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42309 on: November 27, 2020, 10:20:04 am »

Basically in a reversal from earlier decisions in California and Nevada - really the replacement of Ginsburg by Barrett - the ruling held that the state of New York was not justified in imposing capacity limits for houses of worship on the basis of expert medical advice.  Seems that religious fanaticism trumps covid containment measures.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" seems pretty clear. While it isn't unconstitutional for government measures to disproportionately impact religious groups--as long as said measures aren't arbitrary or without a compelling state interest--explicitly discriminatory measures, however, are unconstitutional.

Putting a general limit on the number of people per square meter or just the number of people present in facilities or locales open to the public in the name of combating a highly infectious disease would be constitutional, even though it would e.g. affect (mega)churches and other large religious gatherings in small spaces a lot more.
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feelotraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42310 on: November 27, 2020, 11:27:27 am »

Basically in a reversal from earlier decisions in California and Nevada - really the replacement of Ginsburg by Barrett - the ruling held that the state of New York was not justified in imposing capacity limits for houses of worship on the basis of expert medical advice.  Seems that religious fanaticism trumps covid containment measures.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" seems pretty clear. While it isn't unconstitutional for government measures to disproportionately impact religious groups--as long as said measures aren't arbitrary or without a compelling state interest--explicitly discriminatory measures, however, are unconstitutional.

Putting a general limit on the number of people per square meter or just the number of people present in facilities or locales open to the public in the name of combating a highly infectious disease would be constitutional, even though it would e.g. affect (mega)churches and other large religious gatherings in small spaces a lot more.

Tell it to the Judge(s).  They split 4-5 and then 5-4 over this.  Whatever stance one takes that says it is far from 'clear'.
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delphonso

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42311 on: November 27, 2020, 06:15:10 pm »

Trump has a tiny desk.

Dunamisdeos

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42312 on: November 27, 2020, 07:48:56 pm »

Trump has a tiny desk.

Damn you and your double takes.

Also, a note to my brethren in Christ, FFS the Bible doesn't say we have to gather in groups of 6 or more. Like you're gonna go to Hell if you call off the monthly potluck or something. I'm sorry you can't hang out at your social club of worship but people are dying. Such an embarrassment.

Quote
Putting a general limit on the number of people per square meter or just the number of people present in facilities or locales open to the public in the name of combating a highly infectious disease would be constitutional, even though it would e.g. affect (mega)churches and other large religious gatherings in small spaces a lot more.

Please yes.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 07:53:33 pm by Dunamisdeos »
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Rolan7

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42313 on: November 27, 2020, 08:32:59 pm »

"For where two or three are gathered together unto My name, there am I in their midst."
I really like that line.  Really encapsulates how Christians can be cool, even when large Christian organizations scare me.
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #42314 on: November 27, 2020, 08:37:46 pm »

"For where two or three are gathered together unto My name, there am I in their midst."
I really like that line.  Really encapsulates how Christians can be cool, even when large Christian organizations scare me.

Thanks bruh
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FACT I: Post note art is best art.
FACT II: Dunamisdeos is a forum-certified wordsmith.
FACT III: "All life begins with Post-it notes and ends with Post-it notes. This is the truth! This is my belief!...At least for now."
FACT IV: SPEECHO THE TRUSTWORM IS YOUR FRIEND or BEHOLD: THE FRUIT ENGINE 3.0
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