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[LordBaal]

Generally speking individuals are nicer, I married one indeed. Now in packs, humans, of any religion, denomination, class, race, nationality, political inclination or grups in general migth end up really idiotic.

[Folly]

Did anyone else actually listen to Trump taking media questions last night?

I'm growing increasingly concerned that this is all leading up to inauguration day, when just before Biden can take the office, Trump shows up and gives a silent nod to some loyal military suit he installed. The suit draws his gun and shoots Biden in the face. Trump immediately steps forward and pardons the suit(without regard for the fact that he has neither been charged nor convicted of anything yet), then declares that he will be remaining as America's democratically elected president for life.

[bloop_bleep]

Did anyone else actually listen to Trump taking media questions last night?

I'm growing increasingly concerned that this is all leading up to inauguration day, when just before Biden can take the office, Trump shows up and gives a silent nod to some loyal military suit he installed. The suit draws his gun and shoots Biden in the face. Trump immediately steps forward and pardons the suit(without regard for the fact that he has neither been charged nor convicted of anything yet), then declares that he will be remaining as America's democratically elected president for life.

"Guys... this four-dimensional chess game is getting rather elaborate!"

[Telgin]

Sounds like it would be a dangerous gambit.  The Secret Service would be protecting both by that point (and already are?) and I suspect most have little love for Trump.

Not that Trump wouldn't try a dangerous gambit for lack of understanding the risks, but you know.

[delphonso]

Kamala def packs heat.

[Starver]

I'm wondering if it'll turn out like House Of Cards (orig. UK version/novel-it's-based-on, though Francis Urquhart is by that point in The Final Cut, a record long-serving PM who is - at least publically - still holding firmly onto power, not a one-term loser).

And then there's that film with the two ex-Presidents who get saved from assasination by the sniper 'Dorothy'...
(edit: ..."My Fellow Americans".)

[Greiger]

I'm thinking its far more likely for him to bribe the electors to be faithless electors, or vote for him instead, and then pardon himself (or whoever in his team performs the bribe), and the electors for taking the bribe.  Then he's legally president for 4 more years, with the constitution and law backing him up.  With the only course of action for folks against him being straight armed rebellion by that point.

[Max™]

There is no way he would get enough electors to do that to change the result in the first place.
There is no way the states where this happened wouldn't revert to alternate electors if some were found to be compromised.
There is no way anybody can force the House to accept a slate of electors it doesn't think are valid.

The absolute best case scenario for everything Trump is wanting to happen, where everything falls into place his way involving trying to fuck with electors ends up with the House telling said states to fix their shit and if it goes on until 1/20/2021 the Speaker of the House becomes Acting President.

[Greiger]

Be amusing if he tried though. be nice to have a clear danger caused by the EC to twist lawmakers arms to get rid of it.  States being worth 'points' is good enough, we don't need a bunch of old folks physically convening to vote the exact same way the states did, its pointless, wastes government money and opens us up to exactly that kind of blackmail or fraud.

[Dostoevsky]

Currently speaking:

• Roughly 33 states have some sort of law attempting to bind their electors - in some cases just a pledge or fine, while in other cases it's a felony.
• Of those, 14 states have laws stripping faithless electors of their votes (replacing them with people who presumably will not make the same mistake). That includes Arizona, Michigan, and Nevada.
• Georgia, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin do not (WI has a law against it, but... no real enforcement/consequences).

While faithless electors are somewhat common, they generally vote for a token other (e.g. in 2016 Colin Powell or Bernie Sanders). The last time an elector actually voted for another party's official candidate was 1972, when an R elector voted for the Libertarian candidate.

So yeah, quite unlikely/difficult but not impossible.

[McTraveller]

I'm sorry you can't hang out at your social club of worship but people are dying. Such an embarrassment.

"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."  -Benjamin Franklin

It's a sad time when the meaning of statements like that are lost. People are all too willing to give up these essential liberties, and even applaud those who take them away, for "a little temporary safety".

The essential liberty being given up here is the liberty to meet in groups. Think about what can arise if the government has the ability to prevent people from gathering (for any purpose).

There are ways to deal with the pandemic that don't require giving up essential liberties - both on the side of the public and the government.  It's sad that both sides are not using those tools though, and instead just cause massive damage (by ignoring basic hygiene precautions or by becoming draconian).  In hindsight, it's most shameful that We the People (in the USA especially, but worldwide by statistics) are so focused on the immediate now, that we can't even function as a civilization in the time of a pandemic.

[hector13]

I only have experience with four or five intensely religious people that I work with, and when statements like “Jesus will protect me” come up in the context of taking basic precautions to stop spreading covid, I think the person involved loses decision-making rights as it pertains to protecting people from covid. You don’t need to go to a church to worship god when god is said to have created literally everything, so anywhere is god’s house.

The slippery slope argument you appear to be implying that the government will attempt to stop people protesting the government doesn’t really work when we had protests in the Summer, too.

I understand where you’re coming from, but I also know people are idiots. Yesterday was Black Friday, and while it was nowhere near as bad as I expected it to be at my work, there were still crowds and little in the way of social distancing, and people still half mask it which completely eliminates the point of wearing a mask for a disease that spreads through inhaling and exhaling particles. The fun thing is that wasn’t even the end of it as the same is extended, presumably to avoid huge crowds, so it’s potentially going to be an extended super-spreader event all over.

That’s one store in a relatively small city in one county in one state in the entire US. Interesting times are ahead.

[McTraveller]

Believing that living a "normal" life with maybe some added hygiene precautions like masks and not hugging everyone you meet is the same thing as criminally negligent manslaughter, we really do have different worldviews.

Making people stress about "am I sick and don't know it, will I infect someone and they die oh my god I'll have killed someone" is what is happening, and yet we don't do the same mental calculus with "oh man I'm driving, what if I have a moment where I'm not paying attention and somehow cause an accident, even if I just make someone mad and then 10 miles down the road they have a rage-induced accident"... are we really that bad at probability?

Please note that a lot of this is just me trying to process the whole situation. It's not clear-cut either way, despite all the people saying it is. People die of illness, so when (if ever?) is someone culpable for spreading it? Do you really want that to be a thing?  If illnesses are inevitable, should we really destroy or damage the lives of 10s of times more people than would be ill? Are the needs of the many really more important than the needs of the few? What if the "few" are millions?  Am I wrong for just wanting to go about my daily life, even if I have to wear a mask or whatever?  Am I wrong for not being terrified I might get sick?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

We've taken all these countermeasures, and the hospital system is still on the brink of collapse. That's with a substantial reduction in vectors.

Covid is dangerous. It is far more dangerous than something like ebola, because covid is in the sweet spot of infectiousness and lethality that stops killing random unfortunates and starts burning through the entire human population. Disease researchers paid such close attention to SARS and MERS for a reason - what they so feared then has come true now.

This is not a philosopher's dilemma about relative freedoms. It's a true and present danger to our lives, and even if you so foolishly cut the lives of the unconsenting by removing lockdown measures a good third of the population would still follow them by volition and thus "destroy normal life", this being about how many people are self-rational.

Things did not have to be as disruptive as they are, but the death cultist portion of the population desires so fervently to drink deep of annihilation and compel our governments to do the same that we have no choice but to follow the path that we have been following.

[Jopax]

Thing is, if folks were following said precautions about hygene and masks you probably wouldn't need harsh restrictions and lockdowns, atleast not on the scales that are needed now.

So another way to put it would be if you're incapable of exercising your freedoms responsibly in a way that doesn't endanger others maybe you shouldn't have said freedoms in the first place? After all, you don't let kids use guns or drive cars or drink for a goddamn good reason. It's sad to say that the same shouldn't be true for adults but hey, here we are.