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[scriver]

The FBI are police, dude.

Basically it seems that your answer to question is "the police".

[MetalSlimeHunt]

That depends - do you consider feudal-era manhunters to be "police"?

When it comes to police and prison abolition, I find that objections tend to start with "you can't possibly do this", turn into "that's just police with extra steps", and then finally into "that's way too extreme of a change". Which is a contradiction - if radically altering every level of law enforcement/prisons makes them no longer be the thing that they are now, then you've abolished the old thing.

So pick your poison, I guess. If you want to still call radically altered law enforcement and punishment as police and prisons, it doesn't really affect the essence of the position.

[Frumple]

There's definitely some stuff we could stand to do first, for what it's worth. Kill qualified immunity dead, disarm cops more or less in their entirety, probably just fuck civil forfeiture completely, stuff like that. And if we can't get basic shit like that through, then yeah, maybe it's time the institution just stops existing.

The idea of direct reimbursement for wrongdoing's been bouncing around my head lately -- basically when cops fuck up or do something excessive, the specific cops involved pay (significant) reparations to the victims (or next of kin, or whatever). Make their district and any supervisors price match it, make it follow everyone involved even if they quit, make it unable to be bankrupted away. It's small consolation for someone robbed or brutalized or killed, but it's the kind of consolation that can get organizations and whatnot to sit up and stop fucking up, too.  We do something similar for other professions, after all.

Civil forfeiture was the thing I was thinking about as a particularly appropriate issue for it. Tighten up investigation of incidents, and if it turns out to have been done wrongly (as at least fucking half of them are, probably significantly more), then the cops involved return whatever the amount illegitimately stolen was and pay back double the same amount -- their boss price matches, the district price matches, and it's all direct garnishment or something effectively similar. No escape, no quitting to dump the reparations, no bankrupting it away. If you're going to have the privilege of that kind of extrajudicial horseshit, it's going to come with some goddamn responsibilities, yeah?

[MorleyDev]

It's usually easier to frame it as 'reform' than 'abolishment'.

It seems like the reforms desired as making 'the police' more focused on preventative measures and community engagement than as punitive force. Hard to gun down kids you broke bread with.

Amongst UK police officers there was a phrase, 'fireman policing', used to describe the idea that a lack of funding and manpower would mean police officers would be basically only sent out to deal with problems instead of patrolling and acting as members of the community they police.

[Bumber]

https://www.axios.com/china-spy-california-politicians-9d2dfb99-f839-4e00-8bd8-59dec0daf589.html

[dragdeler]

-

[KittyTac]

For most of human history, there were no large-scale settlements and thus no need to organize law enforcement. Having vigilantes enforce laws would just lead to the same problems as now-- selective enforcement based on the "enforcer"s' personal beliefs. Feudal manhunters were indeed a (primitive form of) police.

Now I don't oppose radical reforms to move further towards rehabilitative justice. But unless you're going to revert to having absolutely no organized law enforcement... Don't call it "abolishment".

[TamerVirus]

https://www.axios.com/china-spy-california-politicians-9d2dfb99-f839-4e00-8bd8-59dec0daf589.html

Gettin' the good ole bang bang from Fang Fang

[McTraveller]

I read a book (America's Original Sin) that has some interesting points about about how one of the problems with modern police culture is that somewhere in history, and especially American history, the modus operandi of police changed from guardians to warriors.

We could go a long way to improving law enforcement by moving back to a guardian sensibility rather than a warrior sensibility. You can even keep them armed - having armed guardians is notably different than armed warriors.  It's all about the mindset and approach.

[feelotraveller]

Six Ideas for a Cop-Free World

[Frumple]

I read a book (America's Original Sin) that has some interesting points about about how one of the problems with modern police culture is that somewhere in history, and especially American history, the modus operandi of police changed from guardians to warriors.

We could go a long way to improving law enforcement by moving back to a guardian sensibility rather than a warrior sensibility. You can even keep them armed - having armed guardians is notably different than armed warriors.  It's all about the mindset and approach.

I mean, stateside the whole shit and caboodle originated with goddamn slave hunters. There's no "guardian" to go back to, the institution's roots are possibly even worse than its present, or at least terrible in different ways.

[Vector]

I recommend the podcast "Beyond Prisons." It's definitely not a listicle, but I feel like it does a good job of explaining to you what prison is and how it functions, which definitely helps clarify how things could be better. I haven't heard that many of their episodes but just a couple were enough to start changing my impressions.

[TamerVirus]

All sorts have now joined in on the Texas lawsuit
Texas is now joined by Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, West Virginia.
Vs.
Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin Who were joined by California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Guam, Hawaii, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, Virginia, Virgin Islands, Washington and Washington D.C.

Ohio is doing a neutrality thing where they say they want the court to hear the case but have not formally taken a side
You also have the situation where state representatives are from the states being sued joining in support of Texas-like Pennsylvania’s republican reps for example

[bloop_bleep]

When was the last time half the country sued the other half? Has it happened before?

[Eric Blank]

Right before the civil war iirc