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[McTraveller]

I basically concur with what wierd said regarding the "3 options" - that is my concern and sentiment exactly.  You don't take stuff away, you give people the tools to evaluate it.

[KittyTac]

Thanks for the explanation, Vec! I appreciate you taking the time to hash that out for me, I'll be sure to remember this when I refer to the country.

What made it self-defense?

Wasn't he like attacked? I don't remember much of the incident.

If he indeed wasn't then yeah he's a murderer.

He traveled across state lines with the gun his mother gave him (he's not old enough to own one) with a bunch of white supremacists to 'defend properties' when the city of Kenosha was having unrest at the height of racist policing protests in the summer. Protestors were primarily black. You don't get to claim self-defense if you're intentionally putting yourself in conflict with intent to escalate with illegal weaponry.

He got his justice, though- he's white, so he got to walk past the police line unmolested after murdering those two people, faffed around for a bit in his home state, was allowed to go get beers and a photo op with some more white supremacists after cops came to arrest him, got millions in legal funds from Trump supporters calling him a hero, fucked off to a safehouse while awaiting trial, then fled from the safehouse and his current whereabouts are totally unknown.

Y'know, justice.

Yup then he's definitely a murderer. No qualms here then.

[Lord Shonus]

Take for instance, the infamous example of 'The adventures of Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn', a collection of works that flagrantly use the N word, depict rampant institutional racism as ordinary and acceptable, consider slavery acceptable, et al.

Those works condemn institutional racism and slavery
 The entire plot of Huck Finn is that Huckleberry's racism has been blinding him to Jim's humanity.

[wierd]

Take for instance, the infamous example of 'The adventures of Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn', a collection of works that flagrantly use the N word, depict rampant institutional racism as ordinary and acceptable, consider slavery acceptable, et al.

Those works condemn institutional racism and slavery
 The entire plot of Huck Finn is that Huckleberry's racism has been blinding him to Jim's humanity.

I was referring to how the many recurring chars are frank and unabashed with their racism.  This particular body of work was the subject of similar "BAN IT!!" hysterics in the lare 90s, early 2000s.

[dragdeler]

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[wierd]

Dragdeler:

The public contract for copyright is that when it expires, it enters the public domain.  The artist's wishes are non-consequential.

As for the issue with people wanting to ban books, and the "Obvious acceptability!" of option 3, you are mistaken.

See also, this list of "Most banned books" from US libraries.
http://www.ala.org/advocacy/bbooks/frequentlychallengedbooks/decade2019

Both the Left, AND the Right, have been actively involved in this disgusting practice for quite some time now, and it is *ALWAYS* about the virtue signalling of "ELIMINATING!" the "OFFENSIVE!!!" content.

When it comes to the publisher itself doing the banning (through refusal to continue publishing while their copyright powers are still active-- a thing that is primed to continue being football kicked into perpetuity because of actors like Disney and co.), you cannot even fight it at the library level in any meaningful capacity. Once old printed books are destroyed due to handling or lost due to failure to return them, those works stop being available for public discussion, and you end up square in the hands of "Ministry of Truth" territory.

[dragdeler]

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[Frumple]

Those dr seuss books are littered through libraries (including archival and academic ones) and available as ebooks and crap.

They're not slipping anywhere except from active printing

[dragdeler]

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[wierd]

The issue is not with these specific books, it is with the fallout of permitting this action in the future.  The lead-out (and thus, public availability level) of future works will become less and less-- eventually down to mere preprints, likely in the double digits of available copies total---


Failure to recognize this as dangerous as fuck, just because it happens to tickle your specific propaganda flavor itch (this time), is doing the world a grave disservice.

[Frumple]

Publishers do shit like this on the regular, though. Stuff goes out of print or publishers stop printing them all the bloody time, for all sorts of reasons up to and including, "Yeah, this had some odious crap we don't want to print anymore". This has been true for literal centuries. It's not exactly super dangerous.

voila straight from the librarist's mouth

Hell, it's probably worth noting that, even with the raging tire fire that is copyright law, archival libraries in particular have an expanded mandate in what they can just copy more or less at will, on top of the tools to do so. If somehow these specific items winnow down to just archival copies, when they start to wear with time they'll just... be copied anyway, to keep one around.

[dragdeler]

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[Starver]

See also, this list of "Most banned books" from US libraries.
http://www.ala.org/advocacy/bbooks/frequentlychallengedbooks/decade2019

Interesting list (and its predecessors). Amusing, in a way.

Fahrenheit 451 only appeared, at a quick scan, in the 2000-2009 top 100 (maybe too much competition?) but Brave New World was in all lists (IIRC) and 1984 in at least two of them.  (Banned by the USSR, naturally, but I know in the '80s, and probably at other times, 1984 was attacked in the US as being pro-Communist, which tells you something about those that would consider this.)

It appears that the "What's happening to my body?" for girls is more bannable than the equivalent for boys, which was much further down the respective list.

Captain Underpants? Ooookay...

Lolita much further down the list than The Holy Bible, I noted.

...of course, we can't reject the possibility that some books were never enshelved to be then proposed to be deshelved by ever so slightly more objecting "moral/intellectual guardians" of whatever the local flavour there was. I haven't yet delved into the yearly list information to see if there's context to the objections (and if they provoked action/non-actionable responses).


I've not yet found a similar UK list. Though interesting world-wide summaries. Dan Brown has been known to be banned by the Catholic church, for example, but not for being just badly written of course.

[dragdeler]

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[scriver]

Typical librarian

Always trying to silence people