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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 3593370 times)

feelotraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44340 on: March 13, 2021, 02:54:52 am »

Hey! There's some good news -- they're going to work on ending Forever Wars.

That is indeed good news.

I'm not sure how much real difference it will make though. A couple of years ago I remember Jimmy Carter (the one that was prez) claiming that the US had been at war for all but 16 years of its (then) 242 year history.  ("Most warlike nation in the history of the world" he said, if my memory is precise.)  The vast majority of that time it was Congress authorising said wars.

Still it's good that declarations of war might return from being the foible of a single individual.
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Duuvian

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44341 on: March 13, 2021, 03:24:21 am »

May I introduce aid for the socially disadvantaged to deal with bigotry?
Sure if it was just them who had problems.

Farmers in general are lowkey fucked so I'd say the bill doesn't cover enough.

I keep hearing that, and I've yet to meet a farmer who didn't have over a million dollars in assets, or who had to pay taxes (you aren't a person, you're a business. Everything you buy is a business loss). You can't buy stuff directly with assets, but it's a lot better than having no money or assets like most of us.
Corporate farmers yes. (Almost) every other one, you are wrong.

Small farms are vastly different than big farms. Large farm equipment is expensive. In addition small farms seem to receive much less in government support; in fact there are quite a few barriers in marketing for example. For the smallest farmers, it may be limited to hanging a sign outside and visiting the local farmers market. Due to cost barriers in processing food for sale, often very small farmers are limited to selling raw ingredients locally and certain markets such as meat are very hard to enter without a large enough herd to justify facilities. Thus creative measures to legally avoid the expense of processing facilities (think stainless steel resteraunt quality facilities) are sometimes required to sell a small flock of meat chickens or even a goat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_farm_bill

I don't know know if my dad didn't qualify for subsidies or if he never bothered to look, but that article says it required crop insurance so maybe it wasn't worth it without having a huge crop of whatever to insure.

Tractors are also pretty expensive; my dad used an old 20 to 30 year old lawn mowing tractor and a push roto-tiller and only recently upgraded to an even older 60's era actual farm tractor that can mount a bigger tiller under it. From what I read in an economics book about farming or tractors or some such nonsense I think I remember the reason why those old as heck '60s tractors are so widespread among small farmers are because back in those decades the government had a program that spread those tractors out to small farmers affordably or as a subsidy or something; and once that program was ended the dang tractors got so expensive that 60's tractor models (being easy and simple to repair tractors) are still very widely used as they can be purchased relatively cheaply while still doing the job.

Here are some random tractor examples; I chose from the Detroit Farm and Garden section of Craigslist, one for being an old tractor and the other for being a new tractor of about the same size. The new one does have some attachments, but I assume the old tractor has a hookup for (older versions of?) that stuff too, though it would add to the cost a bit. I didn't see any newer used tractors without attachments shown; they must bundle them often or something.

Spoiler: $2,750 (click to show/hide)


EDIT: I approve of the removal of the standing AUMF, it went way past it's intent. I think also that it's possible that Iraq may be in less need of the US nowadays after ISIS but I am no expert. However Afghanistan is gravely worrying to me as even though I don't recall being in favor of that war even at the beginning, I am proud of what the women of that country have only begun to achieve.

I do think peace with the Taliban is possible; I have read in some article at some point that there is hope that their youngest members are more open minded than the ones who are aging out so to speak. I don't know if that's true, but it sure would be cool. However I do believe what is happening currently is that the Taliban are applying as much pressure as they can on the US supported government due to the Trump agreement, as the US supported government has been excluded from peace talks and agreements apparently. I am no expert but I believe this is a tactic, of great risk to the involved (as the other side may respond in kind) in order to bring whatever gains achieved to the negotiating table so to speak. I saw an old black and white Korean War movie, that while jingoistic and somewhat racist (it was an old movie) showed this situation, where American infantry had to attack a hill and hold it in what they knew were the last days of the shooting war. I think the Taliban are trying to show they aren't done fighting and aren't exhausted. Again I am no student of this field so I won't guess the answer to how exhausted of fighting they may truly be.

Are there any historical examples of effective alternatives to maneuvoring for peace treaty leverage through destructive means, other than acting in return in the same wasteful way? Otherwise the US leadership may face a difficult choice of another troop surge there or watching what may be similar to South Vietnam. The partial US Taliban agreement would also be interesting to read historically similar instances of.

A reference:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan_peace_process

I think Ghani's offer should be looked at again; it seemed decent as a way for all sides to find some victory.  The wiki article suggests it was well supported by the population of Afghanistan. I think that result along with generous and honest rebuilding efforts funded from outside the country, especially the US, would possibly lower the liklihood of future civil conflict as well as not cost the people of Afghanistan foreign support from one bloc of alliances or the next as this may be palatable to all the foreign interests who to some degree probably wish the US was not there; but this way the US itself doesn't withdraw what aid it tends to offer after a rough lesson learned from WW1 -> WW2. At the very least it seems terribly unfair and untrustworthy of the US that Ghani's government has been excluded from the process to at least a large extent.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2021, 05:27:11 am by Duuvian »
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nenjin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44342 on: March 13, 2021, 04:28:39 am »

Pretty sure my dad has that $2,700 tractor only in white and blue. Damn thing has sat in the woods in Tennessee for over 20 years, and he can still get it running when he needs it.
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Duuvian

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44343 on: March 13, 2021, 05:28:23 am »

Hah yeah my dad's just sits outside through the Winter and everything, only needs new oil, spark plugs or other minor gubbins now and then.
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LordBaal

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44344 on: March 13, 2021, 06:48:38 am »

Pretty sure my dad has that $2,700 tractor only in white and blue. Damn thing has sat in the woods in Tennessee for over 20 years, and he can still get it running when he needs it.
It is a Ford New Holland? I sell, used to sell, dunno, next week have to talk with the owner, tractor spare parts. Kind of a nerd on tractors because of that.
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Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44345 on: March 13, 2021, 09:18:53 am »

What weight are those tractors? Over here, it's illegal for any tractor over half a tonne (IIRC) to not have at least a roll-bar.  Outside of the exemptions of true antiques (only operated in vintage displays) and might-as-well-be-ride-on-mowers/quad-bikes (which are still/more dangerous), I feel very uncomfortable seeing them without even an after-market 'croquet hoop' frame.

Though it does seem these days that everyone except the smallest crofters (that still need need tractoring) does seem to have at least a part-lease of a fairly modern piece of equipment perhaps shared around the community as needed, you rarely see one out on the roads without a full cab.
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Iduno

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44346 on: March 13, 2021, 10:15:57 am »

Hey! There's some good news -- they're going to work on ending Forever Wars.

That is indeed good news.

I'm not sure how much real difference it will make though. A couple of years ago I remember Jimmy Carter (the one that was prez) claiming that the US had been at war for all but 16 years of its (then) 242 year history.  ("Most warlike nation in the history of the world" he said, if my memory is precise.)  The vast majority of that time it was Congress authorising said wars.

Still it's good that declarations of war might return from being the foible of a single individual.

16 years still sounds about right, and a lot of them were pretty early.
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dragdeler

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44347 on: March 13, 2021, 12:28:57 pm »

-
« Last Edit: September 16, 2023, 01:59:47 pm by dragdeler »
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Bumber

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44348 on: March 13, 2021, 09:16:42 pm »

« Last Edit: March 13, 2021, 09:19:12 pm by Bumber »
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Doomblade187

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44349 on: March 13, 2021, 10:20:39 pm »

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anewaname

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44350 on: March 14, 2021, 01:55:00 am »

Hey! There's some good news -- they're going to work on ending Forever Wars.

That is indeed good news.

I'm not sure how much real difference it will make though. A couple of years ago I remember Jimmy Carter (the one that was prez) claiming that the US had been at war for all but 16 years of its (then) 242 year history.  ("Most warlike nation in the history of the world" he said, if my memory is precise.)  The vast majority of that time it was Congress authorising said wars.

Still it's good that declarations of war might return from being the foible of a single individual.
Before the term "forever wars" was common, American politicians were putting the standing military into use for profit, against the indians, the mexicans, the philippines... it is not war if your enemy is inferior/stateless/heathen, it is just taming those heathens with the sword so they will do farm work for you.
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44351 on: March 14, 2021, 02:02:13 am »

Before the term "forever wars" was common, American politicians were putting the standing military into use for profit, against the indians, the mexicans, the philippines... it is not war if your enemy is inferior/stateless/heathen, it is just taming those heathens with the sword so they will do farm work for you.

I think the hardest thing about American history for me to learn was that Wounded Knee wasn't very long ago.
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44352 on: March 14, 2021, 09:42:21 am »

Yeah, Skyrim came out in 2011
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44353 on: March 14, 2021, 10:04:25 am »

Knowing the last major florida lynching occurred after my grandfather (who I live with, currently) was born has definitely been a consistent source of perspective on how fucked up the US is and how far past its sins it very much isn't, yeah.

Some folks like to act like our nasty shit is somehow off in the distant mists of yesteryear, but, like. No. It's not. Nevermind all the new crap, plenty of the old crap hasn't exactly been laying buried for very long :-\
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #44354 on: March 14, 2021, 11:47:42 am »

Yeah I actually support giving aid to them, Duuvlan.

Honestly the horrible crimes of the past in general are not that far behind. My grandfather who died not too long ago was born before the Holocaust was truly exposed. America is nothing special in that regard. Yes the past sucks. We should leave it behind where reasonable and at least try to build a better world to not repeat those same mistakes.

And even given your... Issues (I don't deny them), you guys have improved compared to those times. We Russians barely improved. Our government is reminiscent of the idiotic Tsar.

We always have it worse, Russia sucks, I wish I lived in America or Canada than this shit.
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